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The embarrassing Herald restoration thread - sometimes wrong, sometimes right...


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1 hour ago, thescrapman said:

They came off a 65 Herald 1200 with type 12's on. So should be right.

Do you want any more type 12's??

Thanks for the offer but no, I've got two pairs already but am upgrading to type 14s on the same uprights / adaptors. Both pairs of 12s are in the same rusty state so will need work, but the type 14s are either new or very useable, so I may as well go for the better stopping power. The shields will be very welcome, tho.

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I've got as far as a trial assembly of the uprights and think that, thanks to the help on here, I've got them in the correct orientation.

50CFDD64-DD63-4BA0-9098-1BB3B1D4CCD2_1_105_c.jpg.393d8fa1ac5198b3f1ddfb4fec941a47.jpg

One thing I noticed, when it came to fitting the rubber seal between the upright and the adaptor plate - I have two different plates. On the front face they have an indentation for the oil seal, but on the rear, one has an indent for the rubber seal, and the other doesn't. The one that doesn't is marked Stanpart, to the left below, and is thinner with extra metal around the mounting holes; the others - and thankfully I have two - are the same heavy thickness all round, but not marked with any kind of part number or manufacturer's mark. I have a pair of those, but only one of the Stanpart versions.

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I think I'll use the matched pair of heavier versions, shown on the left below, lighter one to the right.

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I have no way of dating them, so I don't know if the seal was thought necessary at first, then the mounts were remade with no seal required, or was it the other way round, and a seal was later found to be necessary? In any case the replacement seals are just a large o-ring, different to the original flat profile, and therefore totally useless as they leave gaps when fitted. I think I'll have to make my own. (By the way don't worry about the threads in the photo, the bolts are only a mockup and so not tightened fully yet.)

EAF6AD5C-A521-41AB-A31E-528C7217ABFD_1_105_c.jpg.d7cd13d9e6dff58a88c683596b2186b8.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

I've got as far as a trial assembly of the uprights and think that, thanks to the help on here, I've got them in the correct orientation.

50CFDD64-DD63-4BA0-9098-1BB3B1D4CCD2_1_105_c.jpg.393d8fa1ac5198b3f1ddfb4fec941a47.jpg

 

I thought we decided the dust shield went the other way up?

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46 minutes ago, NonMember said:

I thought we decided the dust shield went the other way up?

'Dished outwards over the mounting plate'... so if the mounting plate is behind, it should be 'dished inwards'. Back to the workbench.

It will be interesting to see how it relates to the disc, once fitted.

Thanks for keeping an eye on me!

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Well, we got there... thanks to Colin 'The Scrapman' Wake I was able to obtain a replacement pair of original steel disc shields so ditched the two poorly-cut 'laser-cut' stainless steel disc shields, and have now blasted, cleaned and, thanks to Rob, reassembled both sides of the front uprights in what looks like the correct order and orientation. I won't fully tighten the bolts, or bend the locking tab, until I'm 100% sure and they're both on the car. One thing to be aware of - if you buy the two smaller top bolts, 1/2 inch, from the illustration in suppliers' catalogues you'll find they are too short as they're sold for shields (or drum brake backplates) only, without the added thickness of the caliper adaptor. Thankfully I had spares so no problem. 

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As I was in the mood I cleaned up a pair of front coil spring plates... I must admit they go from incredibly rusty to very nice quite easily.

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So: now on to the next stage. If all the bolt-on bits are finished, that means I need to work on the bit that they actually bolt on to. So: I started on the bodywork today. After only two minutes with an angle grinder I'd set off both smoke alarms and singed my pullover with sparks. This bodytub is a nightmare. Patch over patch over patch, seams everywhere, bits missing and the boot side closing panel I tried to remove today turns out to be welded on over the original, which is obviously why the wing never fitted and was bent around the wheelarch. It all has to be undone, before it can be redone.

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  • Colin Lindsay changed the title to The embarrassing Herald 1200 restoration thread - from brakes to body

No, Peter, this is the 1200 convertible; it's a donor tub I bought from a major supplier, sight unseen, and to be honest it's caused me more trouble than enough. It would have been a lot less bother to repair the original, even though it was rotten (and in a lot of places for which there are no repair sections), but in one of those moves that you regret later I gave it to a mate for his Herald restoration whilst waiting for what I thought was a solid, good condition tub to be delivered, and to be honest, when it was, the patching - being all underneath - was not visible. I thought this one was going to be a rub down, or maybe light work refit but I'm starting to think that it will never look like anything. I'll do what I can, and let the experts do the rest, and hope.

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I've converted my 68 Mk2 Vitesse from saloon to convertible using an early Aus CKD Herald Conv rear tub believed by the number to e around 1960, all Aus built and delivered only minor rust was behind B post where the conv roof is folded down just had to cut out the bottom 1in of the lower side panel and replace, after 50 years.

I had some bracket issues tho, extra's and of course the rotaflex handbrake cable route. 

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Colin, having done a couple of those lower boot side panels they are actually a fairly straightforward repair.

Being able to weld helps but you should be able to cut them out without too much difficulty as they are simple flange joints aside the last bit around the lower boot aperture corners.

The disc shields look very good btw.

Karl

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I have the replacement panels, salted away for some years now, and I've just bought an air nibbler to help remove the unwanted metal. I'm hoping I won't have to remove the rear wing entirely, and that it's just the wheelarch / side panel area that has been badly repaired in the past and is preventing the wing from sitting as it should. If I match the side valence to the profile of the wing it has a huge gap against the rear valence; if I match it to the rear valence it has a huge gap along the side of the car, almost 3/4 inch right along the side below the wing. I need to remove the outer wheelarch, and the boot floor side closing panel, profile the wing correctly, then replace the missing metal.

1F348AA8-137A-47FC-8C84-A4331E9503FE_1_105_c.jpg.1ddac8d1de194c8567e1b39358e1f4a9.jpg  903B5D15-2893-44EE-BB50-8EDEFAA79BD9_1_105_c.jpg.084e6c1079a58a7ecaad99cd5772becf.jpg

 

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Looking at your pics, looks like if you remove the poorly applied replacement panel, and the rusty original , the bottom of that wing may well pull in a fair bit.

Having said that, the bottom flange of the wing does does look quite wide, but nothing runner a slitting disc, or an nibbles down probably wouldn’t fix, allowing you to pull the panel in, and re-weld.

Karl

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15 minutes ago, Bordfunker said:

Looking at your pics, looks like if you remove the poorly applied replacement panel, and the rusty original , the bottom of that wing may well pull in a fair bit.

Having said that, the bottom flange of the wing does does look quite wide, but nothing runner a slitting disc, or an nibbles down probably wouldn’t fix, allowing you to pull the panel in, and re-weld.

Karl

I'm hoping so - the rest of the wing looks almost factory. I'm going to straighten the wing, trim, bend or remove the metal behind as necessary, so that it looks perfect against the line of the valences, then fit the closing panels against that, and adapt those if required. The biggest problem is the outer wheelarch which is welded up under the wing lip and hard to access (and almost £100 to replace!). I'm stalled by the bad weather at present, if I grind with the doors closed the smoke alarms go off very easily, but if I open the doors all manner of things like leaves blow in. I'll leave it until the weather improves, hopefully early next week.

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  • Colin Lindsay changed the title to The embarrassing Herald 1200 restoration thread - I ain't got no body....

The bodywork continues. The bodyshop that was supposed to do the work has not made contact, I'm too thran (a good Ulster word meaning stubborn) to go chasing them so I'm going to cut out as many bits as is safe then let them tidy the rest. If I don't replace the bits myself out of sheer boredom during this never-ending lockdown. 

I've removed most of the the boot side closing panel, that was actually two welded together.

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Even a small amount of trimming has allowed the rear wing to sit at the proper profile, to line up with the rear quarter valences. I need to shave a few mm more off one edge and tidy up the wheelarch; the intention is that once the wing is at the correct profile, then I can weld everything else to suit. Or: get someone else to weld it.

From the inside, it doesn't look much better. Inches of underseal are hiding weld after weld and patch after patch and the more I clean off, the more I find.

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I suppose I should be glad that even though it's unsightly, it's solid. I'll trim whatever I can, grind down what is safe, and remove as much underseal as I can stand before getting bored. This is the first time I've managed to see inside the boot floor reinforcing plates... I think some Jenolite will help here.

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Nothing that good grinding and cleaning won't sort. If only it wasn't Sunday... roll on tomorrow and dig out the ear defenders.

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On 13/11/2020 at 14:41, Colin Lindsay said:

I'm now on the little jobs, given that the larger jobs such as welding and respraying have stalled due to a mixture of lockdown, and other things getting in the way. Most of what I'm doing is for the fun of it, the challenge, as a result of too much time stuck at home with nowt else to do. 

A few years back I dismantled a seized Delaney Gallay heater blower motor and ended up pulling the bronze bush out of the housing, which is a fiddly job to replace if it can even be done. Fresh eyes a few years later told me that if the bush won't go into the housing, then try a different housing, and as the old one had to be prised out, it was beyond reuse. An old - possibly MG - blower motor yielded up a new and more modern bush housing, so once this was removed - by sawing off the end of the motor casing - it was a simple press fit into the DG motor case, and away we went. Literally. One more saved from the bin.

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Whilst I'm not stuck on total originality for the 1200 convertible I do want to keep certain features, one of which is the original ignition key and lock mechanism; when the car was purchased, a note in the handbook stated: "your spare keys are under the washer bottle" and they were, rusted to the bulkhead, forty-three years on. If they've lasted that long, they deserve saving.

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The problem is that the original wiring loom is past use, and maybe even past repair.

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Whilst I can get a replacement loom - in fact I have a new one in the drawer - it differs from early looms in that the connections at the ignition switch are spade connectors. Early ones were a small metal hook, which screwed into the terminals.

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I can't get them anywhere these days, but they're not hard to adapt from other similar clips, which I did manage to source. A little bit of judicious grinding and voila - new clips. The one to the left was my first attempt and was marked by the vice; the other two are more pristine once I'd realised I needed to mask the jaws to prevent damage.

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The final stage was to confirm the keys are correct; the number is on the end of the barrel, and matches both keys, as does the bootlid lock and so hopefully doorhandles. Brill!

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All I need now is a car to actually fit them all to. Must phone the sprayer... again...

Been, Reading from early on, This was intriguing. 60`s "Security". Read the number off the lock, go to Half-Rods, Buy key(s) return and steal car!.  Dohh!!!!. Mind, even later. A manufacturer of "Prestige" cars fitted central locking which could be unlocked by placing half a tennis ball over the lock and wacking it with the hand, this popped the doors and you where in!. Even easier than the well known "split" flat strip which when slid down the screen could bend the rod and open doors. As shown to me by a police officer, when I locked my keys in the boot!.

Pete

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locked the keys in the 2000 at Duxford , well it was sooo cold i decided to put keys in the glove box ...dont ask,

anyway then wandered off to get warm inside and self locked al the doors 

but 5mins with some parcel strapping/banding  through the NDV  glass and it soon pressed the button and opened the small vent handle .

being slim its easy to poke a loop and by playing you can remote it to where you need it .

very useful stuff , keep a length in the boot for your next blonde moment 

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3 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

Ldl are doing air wedges for 6.99  

idea for spreading a gap in the top of the door  to get access

338175_497.jpg

Might need one to get 'Er Indoors off the sofa. Or two.

Anyway: back to the underseal. Headed off this morning and bought a fiver of diesel as a test (the test was: can you still buy £5 of fuel anywhere?). I'd already made a start with scraper, wire brush, scraper wheel on grinder etc, but was impressed by the petrol:

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Tried the diesel and to be honest it was much slower. Am I meant to leave it to soak? Pressed on with the petrol, it really freezes your fingers through rubber gloves, but the stuff runs off like runny tar and a wipe with an old sweatshirt cleaned it up nicely. That's about half an hour's worth.

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I'll clean up the welds and seams with a wire brush and more petrol, but with cheap metal scouring pads and plenty of old cloths to mop up the runny underseal it's working fine. Other wheelarch to do then I can start on the floorpans. One thing to watch: it softens, can be scrubbed into black soup with a scouring pad, but if you leave it - the petrol evaporates and it all hardens again.

Wonder what the chances are of getting the cloths through the wash unnoticed, so I can reuse them again?

 

 

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1 hour ago, Bordfunker said:

Have you thought about just lighting it after a coat of petrol?

Controlled burn and all that!

Karl

I've thought about it or more likely worried about it, especially since I don't actually have a hot air gun but do have a large blowtorch. The stink of petrol in the garage is grim, even after the windows and doors were opened for half an hour. I've unplugged anything electrical to avoid sparks but am going out again, now you've made me worry again, to fumigate it some more.

If you turn the TV off and open a window, you may just hear the boom.

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8 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

Ldl are doing air wedges for 6.99  

idea for spreading a gap in the top of the door  to get access

338175_497.jpg

The RAC guy used one to gain entrance to my Motorhome. It bust a window catch!. The catches are NLA, except as part of a complete window kit. 10p plastic catch. £57 window kit!.😭. Mercedes (Sprinters) self lock as I found out that day with both set of keys inside.😭

Pete

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  • Colin Lindsay changed the title to The embarrassing Herald restoration thread - sometimes wrong, sometimes right...

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