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E10 is coming


dougbgt6
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49003496

The All-Party Group for British Bioethanol have produced a report and wants E10 introduced by 2020.

Amongst other things the report says:

"Critics of the introduction of E10 say that it is not certified to run in some older cars, principally those manufactured before 2000."  (Oh really?!! :lol:)

The report says that this threat is minimal and that there is no evidence from Europe or the US where E10 is widely used of the fuel causing any significant damage to any vehicle manufactured before the turn of the century.  (Oh really?!!) :blink:

The report says that the fuel industry has "given express assurances that were E10 to be mandated, motorists would still be able to purchase E5 (as octane 98) at many forecourts. Thus any older cars which are not expressly warrantied for E10 can still have access to fuel that is compatible with their engines."  (For how long?!!)

Hmmmm

Doug

 

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3 hours ago, dougbgt6 said:

Thus any older cars which are not expressly warrantied for E10 can still have access to fuel that is compatible with their engines."  (For how long?!!)

They won't be doing away with 97 or 98 RON anytime soon, so we'll be okay for a while, or until BMW or Mercedes throw the toys out of the cot over Brexit and refuse to sell to the UK.

The term 'significant damage' is lawyer-speak for: we haven't blown up any engines, but consumables like fuel lines are being eaten away slightly faster than they would be normally.

The problem is that there is always a solution. When lead went, we got lead-free heads. Now we'll have to get ethanol-resistant parts, which are either available, or can be requested. Since there's a readily-available alternative, we have no bargaining power whatsoever.

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BW,

Sir Greg Knight MP is the individual who pressed for and got the MOT exemption which, oh surprise,  included his classic car. 

Colin,

Ethanol eats rubber, could be the end of Stromberg carbs, we have enough trouble with the elephant condom diaphragms as it is!

db 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

Colin,

Ethanol eats rubber, could be the end of Stromberg carbs,

 

Good job Heralds use the Solex, then... but wait a short while and the suppliers / reconditioners will invent a resistant variety once they realise there's a demand.

No doubt back in the day condom manufacturers were crying over the diminishing availability of lamb's intestines... and then someone went: look, we've invented a rubber variety.... 

...and then the detractors went: yeah, but is it ethanol resistant? :)

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On 19/07/2019 at 19:13, dougbgt6 said:

BW,

Sir Greg Knight MP is the individual who pressed for and got the MOT exemption which, oh surprise,  included his classic car. 

Colin,

Ethanol eats rubber, could be the end of Stromberg carbs, we have enough trouble with the elephant condom diaphragms as it is!

db 

 

 

Im hoping my Millers VSPe additive is going to do as it says on the tin 'combat the adverse effects of ethanol up to E10' as well as boosting octane and protecting my valve seats👍

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It seems that although theres no requirement to use 5% Ethanol in petrol other than 95 it is sometimes used in other grades. As at that concentration its not considered to be damaging theres no requirement to indicate whether any particular petrol has it so you'll never know. Going to 10% is different as its acknowledged that it could damage some vehicles so it should be indicated at the pump.... 

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On 19/07/2019 at 19:17, Colin Lindsay said:

 

No doubt back in the day condom manufacturers were crying over the diminishing availability of lamb's intestines... and then someone went: look, we've invented a rubber variety.... 

...and then the detractors went: yeah, but is it ethanol resistant? :)

No Colin, i think they said... we had better start removing them from the lamb first :) 

Tony.

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Surely the issue is the rubber fuel hoses? And £10 or so on some proper hose will sort that? 

In France there is often a list of E10, or is it 15,comparable vehicles. Seems the car makers knew about this year's ago. I think Volvo have been comparable since 1990,ish ,(that is an iffy memory from refuelling 60litres of diesel....with the slowest pump known to man, and reading the list...)

With Stromberg's I am guessing o rings? But they are available in futon. At least I am guessing the exact size is? Downside is futon is a bit stiffer/harder than nitrile rubber.

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I think steel is pretty ethanol resistant. Aluminium may be an issue? 

But it won't kill our cars off, just as unleaded didn't. It may mean a few changes, and maybe ethanol fuel won't like being left in tanks for extended periods?

 

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Hi,

 ethyl alcohol, ethanol.

Periodically i buy the denatured stuff if i see it cheap enough & add to my fuel tank. Removes any standing water so its "burnt" with the fuel is my understanding. Stops water oxidation to steel fuel tank also. My fuel tank looks like new inside.

I cannot see why fuel hoses and diaphragms have not been changed in the time that was available? Not as if this is news. I assume that new Stromberg diaphragms are Ethanol safe.

You can make 1000 liters a year for your car without paying tax. You could use the same equipment to make a good drinking spirit. Is everybody here teetotal?

Aluminium surfaces do not like vodka strength alcohol so i hear.

Fit new hoses & be happy.

PS Just drink it!

Cheers,

Iain.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Spitfire6 said:

Hi,

 ethyl alcohol, ethanol.

Periodically i buy the denatured stuff if i see it cheap enough & add to my fuel tank. Removes any standing water so its "burnt" with the fuel is my understanding. Stops water oxidation to steel fuel tank also. My fuel tank looks like new inside.

I cannot see why fuel hoses and diaphragms have not been changed in the time that was available? Not as if this is news. I assume that new Stromberg diaphragms are Ethanol safe.

You can make 1000 liters a year for your car without paying tax. You could use the same equipment to make a good drinking spirit. Is everybody here teetotal?

Aluminium surfaces do not like vodka strength alcohol so i hear.

Fit new hoses & be happy.

PS Just drink it!

Cheers,

Iain.

 

 

 

On 01/04/2019 at 15:34, dougbgt6 said:

 

 

Nope, the diaphragms on Strombergs are not ethanol safe but as they are not imersed in fuel its not that they are heavily exposed. However fuel pumps have rubber seals in the valves and will get attacked by ethanol and plastic floats in both SU and Stromberg carbs will also eventually fail with ethanol as will sender unit floats. At higher concentrations like 10% in E10, ethanol also corrodes away aluminium parts so the actual body of the carbs and fuel pumps will start to fail at extended mileages.  All we can hope is that it continues as it is in the EU, where E10 petrol is sold as a separate grade and 5% ethanol fuel is still continued. Most of the larger fuel garages in the EU now have 3 grades of petrol, unleaded, Super and E10. Unleaded and Super is allowed to be watered down up to 5% by ethanol without any labelling, where as E10 carries warnings that it is only to be used in compatible vehicles. Some manufacturers such as BMW have an exclusion  which invalidates the warranty if the vehicle is run on E10.  In the UK most of our fuel has 5% Ethanol nowadays, even the Super unleaded. The only oil company that will confirm that they have no ethanol in super unleaded now is Esso and even they say that in certain parts of the country (like the west country, the North and Scotland etc) that ethanol is added...  The best we can do is replace our fuel hoses, fuel pumps and carbs every so often, not brilliant but that's the way it's going.

 

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