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Gt6 mk3 starter


Dolomitejohn
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Hi all.  Been using the gt6 a bit and have on a couple of occasions found the starter reluctant to turn the engine over after a long run.  The starter kinda turns half a turn, stops and the turns again and presto she fires up.  It's almost like the compression is too high or the motor is weak.  But why only a hot issue? From cold the starter turns the engine over well for considerable time.   Has a reasonable battery, new solenoid.  Its a standard starter motor. 

Thanks all. 

John

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could be starter ring/pinnion problem although cant see why its only when hot so Im going more for starter motor issue. Brushes and/or commutator worn or possibly bearings as electric motors always tend to misbehave more when hot.

Ive seen people complain about these units not being powerful enough for the sixes and putting on geared ones but mine spins over like its going to take off so if yours was working ok something must have changed..... 

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that sounds like a field coil has failed , gives the impression of a low battery and builds up speed when it feels like it if only one field is working

advantage of a geared motor ( often called high torque)  is it takes no current being a small reduction geared whiz bang.and will fling the engine over with a flat battery

pre engaged is better than a bendix unit if you  want to stay original  , most recons have a nice coat of paint and fancy box , 

you pays your money and makes your choice

Pete

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Hi pete. 

It's not a bendix motor but has no box or solenoid attached. Just a round motor with small gear at end.  I removed the high torque that cam with car as it sounds dreadful. Not in keeping with cars era etc.   I can always refit it, but was just wondering why when hot the lucas unit does not like to turn.  

Cheers

John 

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its all down to the fixing spacing and the location diameter and any manifold close proximity thats  all they should fit  most  2000  have pre engaged 

a more stable pinion makes for better less load cranking

wont be the first time ive milled oval holes to make one fit on a bendix  did one for my avenger  many years back as  the mix of 4.5 or 5" centres 

Pete

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13 hours ago, Dolomitejohn said:

Hi all.  Been using the gt6 a bit and have on a couple of occasions found the starter reluctant to turn the engine over after a long run.  The starter kinda turns half a turn, stops and the turns again and presto she fires up.  It's almost like the compression is too high or the motor is weak.  But why only a hot issue? From cold the starter turns the engine over well for considerable time.   Has a reasonable battery, new solenoid.  Its a standard starter motor. 

Thanks all. 

John

I wouldn't worry about it! Mine's done the same occasionally over the past 6 years I've had it. Usually when I've stopped for a very short time to get fuel. Starter hesitates as though too much compression, but then pushes through and starts normally. Leave it for longer, or a shorter period, and it never does it.

 Gully 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I know you say you didn't like the hi-torque version that came with the car but I fitted one years back to the MK1 and it starts the engine so easily. It only makes noise for a few seconds, enough to start it up, so I can live with that. Problems with the original and slow cranking meant the battery was duff long before the car started, which usually took jump leads.

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Oh dear, I've had this a while and been ignoring it just like Gully.  But this last week it's substantially worse, does it every time now. I've replaced the earth strap, no change. I've a new battery  and the solenoid is only 2 years old, (although that doesn't completely exonerate it) So I'm going to take the starter off and take a look inside.

It's a standard unit and has always worked well enough, but it is 46 years old and did take a hammering when I used it and the battery to pull me off the M4 after the great head gasket disaster. If it has to go I'll get another the same, "high torque" are prohibitively expensive and for me, unnecessary. 

Watch out Gully, it's just lulling you into a false sense of security.

Doug

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Doug, worth checking the solenoid. Can be done by shorting across the main terminals, a hefty, sacrificial screwdriver or suchlike. And be prepared for sparks.

I have an inherent distrust of anything that is not properly branded (that includes intermotor and green-boxed Lucas, all unbranded items) and that distrust is from bad experiences. Otherwise usual suspects.

If you need the motor fixing, try to find a local motor repair place, far preferable to an exchange where you could get anything.

I had similar symptoms when in rebuilt my vitesse engine. But I put that down to being new and a bit tight. Better after a few thousand miles. Also had motors that struggled to run a worn 1200 engine. Back then they got thrown away, good motors were 10 a penny, and all the local places kept rebuilt ones for £20. Them were the days...

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2 hours ago, clive said:

worth checking the solenoid. Can be done by shorting across the main terminals, a hefty, sacrificial screwdriver or suchlike. And be prepared for sparks.

Clive yes, thanks. Although it's only a couple of years old I'm suspicious of it. I've done the shorting thing before with a jump lead and Marigolds. I once dropped a pair of pliers which against the odds accidently did the shorting. I subsequently put some nice red rubber boots on the terminals. 

"motor repair place" if I can find one!

I notice Canley want an exchange, so you have to lay out £100 and get half back when they receive the old one. Rimmers offer new, no exchange, £80, probably Chinese! 

Side panel off today and starter in bits. 

John,

Sorry to high jack your thread, I'll keep quite till it's fixed.

Doug

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And back to the original post..

One reason (among others) that starters get slow when hot is that the wire resistance goes up with temp. So current/power to down. This applies to the feed cables and the motor windings.

Of course, it is only a contributing factor, and the only thing you can do is add shielding to reflect heat, or insulate the starter (but that would also slow the cooling prices,cand much of the heat will soak through from the engine)

It may be worth checking the new solenoid is working correctly when hot....

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54 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

Side panel off today and starter in bits. 

I did that once, Doug - the removable panel over the brushes was just too tempting. I think I made a hoo-hah of it and it's now a collection of parts somewhere. If I'm right something wouldn't come off as expected and a little too much force was applied...

I might revisit that one if I can cannibalise the insides from other spare units.

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