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Herald 948 chassis mounting bolts /speed bolts?


fungus
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Anybody know if the body mounting bolts on the early Heralds, I think where are call speed bolts, are avalible new?  sort of a big screw with a bolt type head.

there looks like there were a couple of sizes used, but the only ones I have found in stores are no where near as big. just in case! I don't suppose anyone would know how to work out the size of them, (never could get the hang of bolt and nut thread sizes!) so I can search the tinternet.

below is where they are used.

speed-bolts.thumb.jpg.a09f7fe1b9f7e2c255634405efb950bf.jpg

thank you !

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im pretty sure the only acme threaded bolts were used with spire clips in area 4 where the two sheet panels overlap and screw into the cross member 

all others are std unf bolts and cage plates etc

are you dreaming about this type of fixing    certainly never used on main body mounts 

https://www.lsengineers.co.uk/acme-screws-size-10x3-4.html?fee=2&fep=1575&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google-ps&gclid=Cj0KCQiAno_uBRC1ARIsAB496IWQNVA2dW6j6RFdOSV4iZNqldvDGvLd3UOvAImRltPVU01s64ok8mUaAmHBEALw_wcB

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The ones along the joint of the front and rear bulkheads (No. 4's) are like the ones shown by Pete on later cars, they screw into Spire type nuts in the chassis, not sure about the early 948's though but more than likely the same?

They used a self tapping type thread with a Bolt head to suit either a 7/16" or 3/8" Size spanner or socket If I remember correctly.

The washers were quite large at least an inch diameter, maybe slightly bigger.

 

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2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

im pretty sure the only acme threaded bolts were used with spire clips in area 4 where the two sheet panels overlap and screw into the cross member 

all others are std unf bolts and cage plates etc

are you dreaming about this type of fixing    certainly never used on main body mounts 

https://www.lsengineers.co.uk/acme-screws-size-10x3-4.html?fee=2&fep=1575&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google-ps&gclid=Cj0KCQiAno_uBRC1ARIsAB496IWQNVA2dW6j6RFdOSV4iZNqldvDGvLd3UOvAImRltPVU01s64ok8mUaAmHBEALw_wcB

my coupe (in the picture) is an very early car all the back body fittings are that type of fitting in to a plate fixed to the chassis two under the back seat two in the boot by the axle tunnel and four at the back of the boot, two under the fuel tank side and two on the opposit side fixed to the rear outriggers.

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are you of the feeling they are original and not been fitted by a previous repair , it does not seem an engineering design to use that type of fixing

to secure a body to the chassis ,  in an crash they would all just pull through ....not a good idea   needs a positive fixing   not a big tapper type screw 

this doesnt sound suitable 

pete

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The two halves of the body were indeed screwed together by a large self-tapper and a big washer, through both sides of the body and into the centre outriggers.

Measurements as follows: 3/8 inch head and 1.5 inch long. The washers are about 1 and 5/8 across. There are three each side on the 948, and four on each side on later cars, three on the flat of the centre outrigger and one angled into the edge of the tub. There's nothing behind them, no spire clips or other fixings. Part number is YT3708, listed as NLA but readily substituted for the same dimensions in metric.

1D756C92-C45C-4018-9053-53337A608E4D_1_105_c.jpg.08fced58e095c94d1366994edab8803f.jpg 3FAB0B23-5D08-471A-BA67-35F0EBF6C65A_1_105_c.jpg.9e27cb131299fab2c2170781c7703119.jpg

The other chassis mountings are listed as setscrews but are what I would call bolts that screw into captive nuts. Part number BT7822, again listed as NLA, but probably just a UNF thread in the correct size ( probably 7/16?).

 

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Pete I agree re the structural limitations of the ACME threaded spire nutted screws!

Having said that I fitted an early convertible rear tub (Aus CKD kit) to the rear of my saloon, and the front seat  mountings were ACME style screws with welded spire speedie nuts at the front and clip in spire speedie nuts in the rear floor plinths. needless to say I replaced them with bolts, nuts and heavy washers.

Colin I have some spare coach/Speede or ACME style screws esp the front rear tub joint your welcome to. I don't think there a true ACME which having a coarse thread has a flat apex/top and root of the thread, the screws I have and used at the rear side valences look like ACME screws, photo supplied if reqd.

regards

Peter T

 

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13 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

Colin I have some spare coach/Speede or ACME style screws esp the front rear tub joint your welcome to. I don't think there a true ACME which having a coarse thread has a flat apex/top and root of the thread, the screws I have and used at the rear side valences look like ACME screws, photo supplied if reqd.

regards

Peter T

Unless the OP requires them, Peter; I have lots of those large self-tappers that came off Heralds over the years and all the other mountings on mine are either the long bolts into mounting plates or else bolts screwing straight into captive nuts, as on the front outriggers or the boot extensions. Nothing on my 1200s bar the centre outriggers where the two halves overlap uses self-tappers. (other than the sills of course)

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Definitely original, I have had the car since 1980 and it was basically scrap then. The back seat area had one big thick peace of sheet metal welded over the mostly none excitant original as did the front foot wells. The boot floor was ply screwed to the rust. The best bit on the car was the chassis as years of dripping oil had completely covered it in thick oily goo. Believe it or not it had an MOT and I drove it back home from Ashford in Kent with its “slipping clutch “the reason the lady was selling it.

 

This is a photo from back in 1982 after the chassis was shot-blasted and coated, did not think to photograph it this time when the body was off. All the central rails where in excellent condition as I said coated in oil and dirt. You can just see the fixings. The speed nut things in side are fairly chunky.

Scan018.thumb.jpg.41120bead04475abc49e500b215a7715.jpg

and the parts catalogue does list them as screws .... It’s all rather confusing really! PhotoScan2.thumb.jpg.a59cedf80d45f122ee45df2b4eea9e53.jpg

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They're just bolts into captive nuts in the chassis. Bound to be UNF thread and I'd still guess they're around 7/16 or 1/2. The later Heralds had their fair share of them too, four in the boot and two on top of the diff mounting with another two on the front outriggers.

On this 948 - terminally rusty, unfortunately - you can see the bright threads where they were unscrewed for the first time since leaving the factory, left and right of the front diff mounting, and one even broke off in the raised mounting to the right above the rear shock on the driver's side.

DSCF1642.jpg.8e19442362eeede804313cf827fe45fb.jpg

857153911_DSCF1642copy.JPG.a00417750ec689b534b67c7b5c2e0062.JPG

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just going through some old update sheets for Triumph Herald 948cc spare parts number 508073 3rd edition Accumulative amendment No 5 dated Dec. 1962

Change BT 7822  to read HU0811

updateScan.thumb.jpg.3f2facf563fa70a12d0627244e5b5495.jpg

And I see that the part number they use in the later herald 13/60 part catalogue

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its in the  triumph hardware catalogue,  first time ive ever found what im looking for 

books out in the conservatory , closed for the night,

but at least it shows as 5/16 unf  not all acme  and 13/60 is certainly as all other small chassis   ...bolts and cage nuts

to use acme all round has the ring of Oops  sheared off and drilled out  

pete

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Some more photos, difficult to get a good shot but you can see the speednut plate under the rear mounts WP_20191113_001.thumb.jpg.374709f593048bbeb03e1cbb0dfeaf7f.jpg

 

WP_20191113_002.thumb.jpg.f62861fefe2fc2aac5075fd135b90efe.jpg

and just about under the mounting just behind the diff.

 

P1050550.thumb.JPG.50ec8e32c4142e81e90a8f7d178b71ea.JPG

 

P1050552.thumb.JPG.2d240760733f5057ea8ed060bc80ba0a.JPG

however I coud not get a good pic of the main chassis rail holes but that has the same speednut plate fixed inside the main chassis rail.

 

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