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Body mounting spacers/ rubber washers


garywetdog
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  1. Hi can anyone help me with where the body to chassis rubber washers and spacers go, obviously they go where the fixing locations are but why are some thinner and some made from ally, and also the long rubber strip does that go between the body and chassis or between both tubs for a weather seal. The work shop manual isn't very clear and it's probably not that important but it's just for my piece of mind. Thanks
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doesnt matter where you look the clues are hopeless

in basics the alloy from my memory !!!   two on the front rigger on the inboard baulkhead mounts and two on the rear tub to diff x member 

so each section has a air of solid mounts , rubbers and packers everywhere else. be prepared for many packers as wonky chassis and wonky body are far from 

level or flat you will have to add lts of packing to align , only one rubber to each mount

the strip seals the  rear tub to baulkhead floors together .  and if theres enough add some to the under floor to outrigger 

think electrics  earth bond with some decent  to wire the  2 tubs / bonnet  and chassis all together helps with rusty earths 

there will be others with  ideas as you have found its all rather vague .some t kits dont seem to have the full count of parts 

Pete

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Beware of squishy rubber washers! they should be firm and not squash down very much. If they do, they will "give" and then it will all go loose.

Bill from Rarebits recently sorted some decent ones, canvas impregnated with rubber like the originals. Can't find the link now....

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In general ; metal body washers are generally used where the fastening holes are slotted for adjustment.

Thicker or thinner rubber washers are used to shim the mountings to an appropriate height, so the body sits flat. They tend to vary from one car to another because they adjust for production tolerances - which is why there is no definitive instruction.  One generally needs to best guess,  and then to lower the body onto the chassis to check to see which rubber washer is loose. Then add a little more thickness so they are all equally pinched in place.   

The rubber strips are there to prevent metal to metal contact / chafing and squeaking as the body n' chassis twist as you drive along a road.  The mating surface, along the top of chassis and underside of the body panels, are never perfectly flat.  So along flanges, and in other places where one plate is welded as an overlap on top of another, and/or where the weld itself stands proud of the mating surface - the rubber fills in the gaps / the spaces between the two.  These vary along the length of the car, and from one side of the car to the other,  & again between panels - so you need to select an appropriate thickness of rubber to fill the voids and make things relatively flat.  

It's a matter of taking your time and not worrying too much about what was original. After all you often find two seemingly identical cars feel different when you drive them. One feels taught and doesn't squeak while the other is somewhat loose and rattling.

On the last car I did (admittedly not a Triumph) - I used rolls of sticky-back neoprene bought off from an ebay shop.  Different shore hardness, different widths and different thicknesses are available. It's easy to mark and then use a punch to make holes through it for bolts,  before the paper over the sticky back is peeled off. 

Fabric reinforced rubber body washers are also inexpensively available in different sizes.  I use them a lot on the vintage motorcycles I restore, as spacers between the fuel tank and the frame, and also under the mudguard bracket's screw fastenings.

Hope that helps,

Pete.

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3 hours ago, Bfg said:

In general ; metal body washers are generally used where the fastening holes are slotted for adjustment.

Thicker or thinner rubber washers are used to shim the mountings to an appropriate height, so the body sits flat. They tend to vary from one car to another because they adjust for production tolerances - which is why there is no definitive instruction. 

Not sure if you mean washers in addition to rubber or canvas mounting pads, Pete. 

Even after nearly three decades of Herald ownership I'm still confused at to what goes where. Some suppliers supply two metal pads (aluminium) with the kits and I've been told that solid mounts - with NO rubber pads -  were used only on the two points above the diff and then possibly only on early cars (I still can't find the definitive answer to that); but some others have stated that the front outrigger pads must be solid and not rubber - this I think is incorrect for the Herald - might be correct for Spitfire? - but hard to confirm. All others were canvas / rubber mounting pads with additional metal shims to space the gaps.The shims differ in thickness and are used for adjustment; the mounting pads are all the same thickness.

The WSM states that pads are 1/4 inch thick but in some cases - and it doesn't say why - two pads of 1/8 inch thick are used, but it does not say exactly where they go, and the Service Training Notes make no mention of them at all! I haven't managed to find a good illustration showing the pads - bolts and washers, yes, but not the pads.

 

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Colin, I am pretty sure that the mounts above the diff are indeed just metal. Recent experience is exclusively Spitfire, but I have dismantled a few heralds over the years, and pretty sure only metal.

Re rubber, I would just use a thin rubber washer, and certainly canvas reinforced, And then metal shims/washers to get the adjustments. Yoiu really don't want thick rubber giving and likely perishing these days. Would send the panel gaps all crazy. I think some polyurethane or similar washers would be a good substitute if decent qulaity rubber is no longer available. After all I can't imagine the washers do much to reduce noise/vibration, but may help with rattling.

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the thick alloy have no rubbers , it  really needs a pair of solid none flexing locations  are needed 2 on the diff , two front baulkhead this controls their positions if all are on rubber then shift will happen , not when but how much , if you wish to keep the door gaps then something has to maintain positions

in general to two inner front has no tolerance  so suit a solid , the rear diff x member does have tolerance , if you dont get some solid fix the tubs will shift

if the diff x member bolts become loose you get some amazing bad road  noises you cant locate

pete

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3 hours ago, JohnD said:

Dedtailed drawing in my Haynes for all th washers spacers etc, on page 208.

The original lacks definition, but I hope you can see it.

That's the one I studied too but it doesn't say which are metal and which are rubber.

If Pete's correct about the front bulkhead ones being metal then dammit I've just removed two unnecessarily! Will have to replace them again... but the body's been fitted incorrectly and will require serious adjustment and shimming - can't get the roof to fit at present!

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Thanks everyone for the input and ideas, I think I will try  to find some re enforced mounts, I read an article where they had use old 8mm conveyer belt rubber and manufactured their own. If it's only for noise reduction and to keep the panel gaps correct I might give it a go. eBay looks favourite 

cheers

 

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Rubber washers are used to accommodate any slight angular difference between the chassis bracket and the body tub, and at the same time to help isolate vibration1 between the two and prevent harmonics,  to prevent the paint from chipping around the fastening holes, and then to also to seal the holes from water ingress.  Each of these purposes give a clue to where they are best used.

And even if  thick rubber washers are used, in let's say eight places along the length n' breadth of the chassis - the surface friction of well clamped rubber when through bolted means there's imperceptible movement between the body and chassis.  Certainly, chassis flex will be very much more noticeable when you jack a car up in one corner and check your door gaps.

It takes an enormous force over let's say a  4 x 40mm dia reinforced rubber washer to even compress it 0.5mm, so the backing washers, in steel or stainless, also need to be thick and of a similarly large diameter.   If you want to read more < here >  is a link to Fabreeka. 

I think you’ll find working with 3 or 4mm thick reinforced rubber sheet much easier to cut and punch the holes through.  Then glue two together to give the thickness you require.  BTW just last week I picked up a set hole punches from Aldi, for making clean holes in tarps rubber sheet etc. I think the set of different sized was less then £4.  

*1  Out of passing interest ;  Rover cars were very reluctant to give up using chassis construction because a most important criteria to them was in the isolation of transmission, suspension and road noise (for overall interior quietness).  Although their P5 was introduced in '58,  the gentlemanly refined P4 (chassis car) remained in production through to '64, whereas Vauxhall had introduced their unitary construction in 1937.  Other companies like Morris made the move with their immediately post war models, and even Jaguar went monocoque in 1955. 

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.

just a suggestion < here >  because this company sell all sorts of sizes and thickness.  But if you select 3mm thick, and a ' sample piece'  its not so expensive  ..and yet 400 x 200mm is big enough, to make washers from - for several cars.!

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