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Hi all...

1979 Spitfire 1500 with overdrive.

Help me out someone - I'm taking the propshaft off to change the UJ which is rattling...

Sorry to be pig ignorant but what is the set up at the gearbox end of the prop?  Does it just slide out on splines so I can pull it out when I've undone the UJ bolts or is there anothe UJ hiding behind the gearbox/OD...???

I didn't want to start stripping out the seats/carpet etc if it's not needed. 

 

If it does just pull out will I lose a load of gearbox oil?

 

Thanks

 

Pete

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Bolted to the gearbox, it is the same was as the diff end.

Afraid it is tunnel out time....

It should have a UJ at one end, and a CV joint at the other. Be warned, changing a UJ often results in a vibration caused by imbalance, for some reasons the cars are notoriously bad for it. So fit the best UJ you can find and get it balanced.....

(I changed UJ's in my prop after a UJ seized. It now has a vibration at motorway speeds. I really need to get that sorted before I stat doing a lot of long trips)

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40 minutes ago, clive said:

Bolted to the gearbox, it is the same was as the diff end.

Afraid it is tunnel out time....

It should have a UJ at one end, and a CV joint at the other. Be warned, changing a UJ often results in a vibration caused by imbalance, for some reasons the cars are notoriously bad for it. So fit the best UJ you can find and get it balanced.....

(I changed UJ's in my prop after a UJ seized. It now has a vibration at motorway speeds. I really need to get that sorted before I stat doing a lot of long trips)

Try a jubilee clip about 9inches from the diff Clive, and then move it about 25 to 30 degree's at a time.... It will then be balanced, time consuming i know, but it does work.

Tony. 

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It can be done from the underneath, but fiddly, maybe I'm too old, but I'd take the cowl off. With the cowl off there's all sorts of other things you can attend to! Gearbox top up, cut a flap in the cowl so you don't have to take it off to top up. Check the gearbox mounting rubbers. When you put it back a new rubber to get a good seal and keep the engine bay heat/fumes out the car.

I mark the prop shaft couplings so that the bolts go back through the same holes, but if you're changing the UJ the new UJ might be the thing that makes it all unbalanced. :(

Doug

 

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2 hours ago, yorkshire_spam said:

Can't you get the prop out by just removing the short cover section between the tunnel and the body? 

That is very possible! But I have never tried, and current car has a "unique" tunnel and no extra cutout.

Doug, I am not sure about doing it from underneath. The gap between the chassis rails is pretty small, and no swing on a spanner?

Tony,  I have thought about trying a pair of jubilee clips, and have a friend who balanced props using a bit of chalk, under teh car at 60mph and mark teh heavy spot of teh prop. (see youtube!) but I am thinking of having a new, motorsport prop with bigger UJ's.  185bhp and a crude animal driving gives the prop a hard time! Plus despite my best efforts, and several days work, the prop angle is still a tad over 3 degrees. Big UJ's will help!

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Thanks to all for the response.

Doug - I'm too old for this stuff too - takes me ages to get up after I've been on my back under the car.

I'll be taking the tunnel cover off I reckon - I've removed the short cover section and can't really get to the bolts and nuts on the flange properly.

There is a company in Feltham that can balance the prop so I might pop over there when I've fitted the new UJ.

Just hope it cures the "clonking" noise I had.....

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1 hour ago, clive said:

Doug, I am not sure about doing it from underneath.

Clive, I did it, once upon a time. As you say not much swing on the spanners and you have to roll out from under to turn the prop to get to the next bolt. A job for an enthusiastic youngster. Sadly my youth and enthusiasm are no more.

Doug

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Pete, I looked at taking my prop on my Vitesse to the company at Feltham. When I phoned them they said they send all the props to Bailey Morris for refurb and balancing. I took mine direct to BM and by arrangement they did the ujs/balancing while I went and had a pub lunch! If you are close to Feltham it would be easier but I was on a mission....

Overall excellent service.

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The company in Feltham is Propshaft Services who are now owned by Bailey Morris - the owner {Paul} of BM works at the Feltham site and I caught up with him at the November NEC.

As such there is no advantage going to St. Neots when Feltham do identical work as it is now the same company.

As it happens I will be visiting the Feltham site later this month for a prop shaft to be shortened and overhauled in full.

Regards.

Richard.

 

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I always take the prop. off my Spitfire from under the car.  To me you have do crawl under there to do the diff. one and remove the prop. so I find it's less hassle to just slide along and undo the front one at the same time.  Can't say I've noticed much difference in the spanner throw between front and rear UJs.

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The later spitfire 1500 did not have prop shafts with splines so you may need to lever the coupling off the diff end first. From memory there is a lip on each coupling that fits into diff and gearbox couplings.

So when you take the bolts out it may not drop down.

Graham

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Just make sure it does drop down under control, as it's quite a weight to get on the forehead if you're under it! As Mjit advocates, I too remove the propshaft from under the car, leaving just enough room under the car to get in and get access with spanners, one end at a time, then I could use my knees to support the weight and it drops out under control. 

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Please can someone explain propshaft balancing to me...?

Is the propshaft balanced once it is fitted to the car?  If not, I don't understand why you have to mark the flanges so that it goes back on the same way?

And as I have taken it off and replaced the UJ, does it make any difference which way it goes back?

And what about taking the propshaft in to an engineering company to get it balanced - THAT is when it is off the car, so surely then it makes no difference when you put it back.

?????????????

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I believe balancing can be done on the car (usually noted by the presence of balancing jubilee clips) and, if the shaft ran smoothly before, it makes sense to put it back exactly as it was. This is something easy to do so and if nothing has been changed on the prop why take the chance of upsetting things? However after being overhauled/rebalanced then all bets are off and its position no longer matters....   

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31 minutes ago, petegardner_901 said:

Please can someone explain propshaft balancing to me...?

Is the propshaft balanced once it is fitted to the car?  If not, I don't understand why you have to mark the flanges so that it goes back on the same way?

And as I have taken it off and replaced the UJ, does it make any difference which way it goes back?

And what about taking the propshaft in to an engineering company to get it balanced - THAT is when it is off the car, so surely then it makes no difference when you put it back.

?????????????

I am with you. I don't believe marking flanges etc is necessary.

It is possible to home balance a prop on the car, there are some decent youtube clips to show how to. But getting it balanced at a propshaft specialist is best.....(hopefully)

I would mark the prop and prop flange either side of a UJ when replacing, in the vain hope it may be in balance after.

I think the props go out of balance with a UJ change is tiny variations of UJ dimension, slightly offsetting the prop. It is the only thing I can come up with, unless anybody can elaborate.

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It's like everything in life once you've done it multiple times it becomes easier! The problem with changing UJ's yourself is the different thickness circlips that are sometimes required to take up any end float (mine did) and they are something most of us don't have in our 'magic' boxes. As Johny said the prop will require balancing after fitting new UJ's to ensure smooth running. Best take it to Propshaft Services.

The other thing some people don't consider is driveline angles. If you draw a line from the centre of the diff and output shaft of the gearbox the angles should be the same ie parallel within +/-3 degrees. This applies in side and plan views (some diffs are offset from the car centreline). Google driveline angles and all will be revealed. I have a Type 9 conversion in my Vitesse and when inspected both the diff and g/box output shaft pointed down, not ideal if one points down the other needs to point up to be parallel. I couldn't raise the gearbox any higher so my guy managed to adjust the diff up to get within 3 degrees. In plan everything was ok. In theory if the driveline isn't parallel within 3 degrees vibration and UJ wear can/will occur. Not normally a problem if you have a standard car but if you change gearbox/mounts etc something to consider.

Iain

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update for interest...

I removed the propshaft - it was the type with a UJ at the diff. end and a CV joint at the other - and found both joints were loose so old prop was scrap.

New propshaft from Rimmers arrived with UJs both ends.

Two problems:   the small round disc that acts as a grease plug in the splined end dropped off... no way I could get it back without dismantling the UJ on that end. Did that and seated the plug properly.

Second problem: only one UJ had a grease nipple. The other one just had an empty nipple hole. Great. Had to grease up one UJ, then transfer the nipple to the other end, grease that and put a blanking screw into the empty hole.

Not huge problems but just annoying.

Anyway. Car is smooth as silk and no clonks on take up.

Wonder what the next job will be.......

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Maybe of interest.

I think the rear disc in mine must have come out, as when I first greased the sliding joint, grease just pilled out of the back. I unscrewed  the front cap and covered the back hole with a lolly stick, most grease then went along to front area I assume. I then filled the front cap with grease and screwed back in and repeated a few times. Hopefully this will grease it enough?. I also hope the grease will help prevent water/dirt from entering the rear hole, though centrifugal force may pushed it out to the side area ?.

Dave 

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the end of the telescope bore its normally a welch plug like a core plug ,   shouldnt pop out under excess grease /pressure but its possible 

as for prop angles and joint phasing try a truck with 3 props and   3 centre bearings ,and a diff that changes with load ,   

and find your problems are the guy on the line says these oil tubes are heavy,   and with 10 bolts in a flange hope the uj are all in phase ....we got through a lot of tea some days 

Pete

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