Neil Clark Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 I have to change the chassis on my 1964 Spitfire. Everything else is in good shape (I bought a good car with chassis damage). Would you strip out the suspension and attach it to the new chassis first before removing the body from the old tub, or the other way around? The first way seems most logical but I'm a newbie here. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 well yes and ..no its a classic there is no logic sorry never tried this just frustration as something simple.............. becomes a nightmare its got to be easier to swap components from bare chassis to chassis then refit the tub. pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 I think I would take the body off the chassis and put it to one side, then transfer all the suspension and drivetrain across, then fit the body. If you don't have space for that, it's going to be a pain, especially where the rear axle is concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Having recently helped my brother with his Spitfire clutch I wondered why is it so difficult to wiggle the bell housing through the bulkhead cavity?!! Answer (from P. Lewis esq) In the factory the engine, gearbox were put on the chassis first and the body tub last. No one noticed the bulkhead cavity was too small for later remedial work. Doh! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said: Answer (from P. Lewis esq) In the factory the engine, gearbox were put on the chassis first and the body tub last. No one noticed the bulkhead cavity was too small for later remedial work. Doh! Agree with both Pete and Doug; any Herald I've done has been chassis built up first, as it's much easier to route brake lines etc (and fit the engine and bellhousing as Doug says! I do it in one complete unit) then fit and gap the body. The underside should be already painted so it's just a case of masking off the bits you don't want resprayed. Bonnet goes on last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Definitely as Rob says. Strip the body, body off. Conceivably you could swap the suspension over next, but it is much easier if suspension is last off/first in. If you get a handy assistant, I reckon, assuming no remedial work while you have it all apart, and nothing is too seized etc, the bulk of the swap is easily achievable in a weekend. Plenty to do before and after of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted January 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Thank you all! So body off it is. I'll strip out all I can first, then weld in some strengthening bars across the door gap, undo the body bolts then phone a friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herald948 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 On 14/01/2020 at 07:30, dougbgt6 said: Having recently helped my brother with his Spitfire clutch I wondered why is it so difficult to wiggle the bell housing through the bulkhead cavity?!! Answer (from P. Lewis esq) In the factory the engine, gearbox were put on the chassis first and the body tub last. No one noticed the bulkhead cavity was too small for later remedial work. Doh! Doug This statement is counter to pretty much everything I've read or seen in photographs and films of the assembly line. The statement is true as it pertains to the TR2-6 range, but the "SC" range had complete, bolted together body/chassis units that were painted as such and then fitted with all the mechanical and trim bits. Standard Triumph Factory, Canley. Triumph Herald Production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 When taking the body off assuming you remove the doors do remember to fit door braces across the top of the door openings to stop the body flexing and possibly bending a little at this weakest point. Don’t know if leaving doors in place would stop this flexing but it would possibly cause too much paint damage. Others could have experience when we did our rebuild it was bare metal so doors off and fit temp braces that fit across top hinge to door lock there available occasionally on eBay. Peter T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Peter Truman said: Don’t know if leaving doors in place would stop this flexing but it would possibly cause too much paint damage. I reckon the tub would still close up, but now it would close against the doors with, as you say, the resulting paint damage. It will also be much lighter with the doors removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted January 16, 2020 Report Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Herald948 said: This statement is counter to pretty much everything I've read or seen in photographs and films of the assembly line. The statement is true as it pertains to the TR2-6 range Hmmm... interesting Great video, but only Heralds and we're talking about Spitfires/GT6s, but you may be right? Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 18 hours ago, dougbgt6 said: Hmmm... interesting Great video, but only Heralds and we're talking about Spitfires/GT6s, but you may be right? Doug I've only managed to find two photos of the entire process, one of which may show earlier Standards being ferried around the factory and below to the right you can see a complete engine / gearbox drivetrain sitting ready (sorry it's so small), but this other photo which I've pinched from a site called MotorGraphs shows Spitfire 4 bodies ready to be fitted to complete chassis. This may explain why many of our unrestored cars have a uniformly black chassis whilst the body has been painted in colour. However there are no engine or gearbox assemblies anywhere in sight so it doesn't clear that point any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 Something about that photo of Spitfires is very reminiscent of the photos of the competition department garage. So it may not be relevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted January 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 There will definitely be door and a cross tub brace welded in before moving it. I'm in two minds about the doors - they are pretty heavy with the glass etc etc and we might be only two with an engine crane lifting the body. Possibly take off the boot lid and the petrol tank out too. The workshop manual states that the engine and gearbox can be withdrawn as one - and I'll have the bonnet off anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Neil Clark said: The workshop manual states that the engine and gearbox can be withdrawn as one - and I'll have the bonnet off anyway. It can. I've done it on GT6, Spitfire and most recently Herald, although I do it with the bonnet on... don't forget to remove the lower engine earth at the steering rack, otherwise it lifts the entire car off the ground before it breaks. Someone to feed the gearbox forward as the engine rises so as not to damage anything inside the car is a bonus, although I usually do it on my own with no problems, and removing the gearlever remote assembly gives a bit more room. It's also much easier to reassemble everything outside the car and then refit as one unit, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Truman Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just a quick Question Colin have/do you do it with an overdrive box attached, as I have a rebuilt 1500 and J O/D 3rail box to install in the daughters Mk2, and I would have normally done it as separate parts g/box thro the cabin and engine out thro bonnet space. Peter T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 In the GT6, yes with O/D but the Heralds, no. It's all to do with the positioning of the hoist, which in my case is static from a girder. Make sure there is plenty of room on at least one side of the car; hoist the engine with ropes or chains around engine only. This puts the centre of gravity quite far forward and so the gearbox will naturally make the entire thing tilt towards the rear. I usually jack the front of the car up on a trolley jack; it needs to have good wheels and a pad that pivots. The engine will rise and you can guide it around the bulkhead until the rear of the gearbox clears the bodywork; you can pull on the chain to move the unit away from vertical so that it clears the bulkhead and now hangs with your support in between the front wheel arches. At this point let it hang back towards the vertical but at the same time rotate it sideways so that it's now transverse. If you let it hang here you can pull the car away from in under it on the trolley jack (which is why you need the room to one side) and then lower it to the ground. If you don't move the car sideways you must raise the entire thing high enough to clear the open bonnet, which can be very scary... I should have taken photos when I took the Estate engine out last month, but in this photo just before removal you can see how much room there is in front once the radiator is removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted January 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 Colin in the photo of the 4 Spitfires and chassis together it looks as if the finished painted bodies were to be lifted onto the chassis complete, with doors and and without bracing but I'm not going to try it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 10 hours ago, Neil Clark said: Colin in the photo of the 4 Spitfires and chassis together it looks as if the finished painted bodies were to be lifted onto the chassis complete, with doors and and without bracing but I'm not going to try it! Maybe the hard-tops were used as additional bracing? Plus - the sills were new so less likely to collapse through rust, but even so I'll agree with you - brace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Neil, 2 people can easily lift a bare tub on and off a chassis, no need for a crane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 That's great to know, thanks. My next question is the rear spring / diff assembly swap over. The car is only 8000 miles "old" since it was apparently fully professionally restored at great cost in 2015 for the PO and the mechanical bits, as far as I can see, look great. So for the entire rear end swap, springs, diff etc etc, is it practical simply to jack up the car, wheels off, disconnect brake cables, prop shaft etc, support the weight, undo the few bolts between the chassis and the spring / diff etc and carry it over to the other chassis, simply bolting it back in place there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 I realise this question is a bit pedantic given the answers already given earlier but I've little space nor assistance available and this will be an outdoors operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waynebaby Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 Hi Neil, I can't think why your plan wouldn't work. If you're working on your own however I suspect it'll be more a case of dragging the diff/spring/half-shafts/vertical links/brakes across to the other chassis (unless you're super-strong) because there's a lot of weight there! Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 32 minutes ago, Waynebaby said: (unless you're super-strong) because there's a lot of weight there! Wayne Just what I was about to post - you beat me to it!! It's all quite heavy and because of the restricted space, hard to hold in any kind of balance, and it won't actually all come out as one unit, given the method of fitting the diff to the chassis, which is below and whilst you can drop the diff you can't do it with the rear spring and halfshafts attached - the chassis rails get in the way, and there won't be enough room above to lift the unit over them. I reckon you'll have to dismantle everything and then reassemble on the other chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted January 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 Thanks - seemed too easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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