1964 Spitfire 4

[Neil Clark]

Thanks first of all to Gary of Grim Salvage (yes really) for collecting the car, chassis and bonnet from Liverpool and bringing it to SW London yesterday.  I started today by taking the wheel that had had the impact to MWS in Slough when collecting some new wheels for the B GT.  To my delight the wheel is fine - the tyre had taken all the impact and was split, so that's quite a saving.  I got the hood frame at Moss near Heathrow and was delighted to meet Will Chignell who is himself a member along with his father.  Could not been more helpful - thanks Will and Will's Dad.  But stretching the hood material that seemed unused rips off fingernails!

The carb is a Weber 40DCOE but I'm a bit concerned about the linkage.  When the accelerator is not pressed the rod lies against the exhaust manifold.  Tomorrow I'll strip out the interior and store that in the dry.

[Guest]

That is a very odd (to be polite) linkage set-up on the Weber and appears to have been the subject of an attempt to make it suitable - which it is not.

Looks as though an original Stromberg shaped fitting has been used............ without success.

I wonder if it might be possible to reshape the actual plate, then drill to shape and re-secure , where I have placed the blue dot on your photo.

This would pull it away from the pipe and still have the angle to open the carb. In addition it looks as though you have a fair bit of thread at each end of the rod, this could be reduced to compensate for the lower height of the flange with the blue dot.

In essence you are pulling it away and lowering slightly at the same time; that may well be sufficient to clear the manifold. Difficult to be sure without actual closer inspection but certainly doable.

 

[Neil Clark]

That's really helpful thank you - I was sceptical the moment I had time to look at it in detail today.  It certainly needs addressing before I use the car.

[NonMember]

The problem with moving the linkage to the blue dot is that you're making the pivot length shorter at the carb. This will give very short pedal travel. You're also at too high an angle, so you won't get good opening, which may alleviate the total lack of progression but at the expense of strangling the flow.

The problem is that the inlet manifold is too short for the combination of exhaust and linkage. You could either convert to cable (fit a MkIV accelerator pedal) or arrange some sort of intermediate transfer arm. Either way some bracketry will need fabricating.

If only there was a way to reverse the throttle direction, like if you could dismantle the throttle shaft and re-fit with the butterflies upside-down, so that they open the opposite way. If so, you could turn the linkage round and have the rod well clear of the exhaust. But that's probably not going to be possible because of the idle stop screw.

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, NonMember said:

The problem with moving the linkage to the blue dot is that you're making the pivot length shorter at the carb. This will give very short pedal travel.

I did consider that Rob, but thought if the blue dot was drilled this would be the point where the carb spindle would fit through and then secured by the nut. The vertical angle would be the same albeit now away from the downpipe and the reduced height {perhaps 1/2" at the most} would be compensated by the double threaded rod being cut to size.

In effect the reductions will all be relative, you just have a smaller linkage.

Does that make better sense or would the pivot length still be an issue ?? 

Regards.

Richard.

[NonMember]

Pivot length would still be an issue. The length of the threaded rod is irrelevant - the lengths that matter are the two pivot arms - one from the pedal pivot forward to that link, the other from the link to the throttle spindle. It's the ratio of those two that determines how much pedal travel you get for a certain throttle rotation, with the caveat that it's actually the horizontal distance from throttle spindle to linkage that matters, and if the angle of that line is upwards (as it is already) when fully closed then you can't get full opening because you hit the absolute top of the link rod's motion before that. Shortening the pivot at the throttle spindle will make the pedal travel very short. I had to re-fabricate the link on my Mk3/1500 because my first one was too short to be drivable. Your proposed mod looks noticeably shorter than that!

[Guest]

Oh well, back to the drawing board Rob................ thanks for explaining.

Regards.

Richard.

[Colin Lindsay]

I'm assuming that that is not the original manifold? Looks like a Moss / TT version? Possibly an alternative manifold may help?

[Neil Clark]

I'm really sorry - I am too new to Triumph's to know but looking at the manual photos and this one I suspect not original Colin

[thescrapman]

Defiantly aftermarket manifold, it has collector boxes.

I would go cable throttle, the Kangaroo throttle is bad enough on a rod linkage, let alone a bodged in one, with reduced travel. Would be totally undrivable.

 

[Neil Clark]

Thanks.  I want to go with an acceptable commercial and proven set up and I think I have seen a possible compact cable option already on Moss's list.

[hugh]

There are several linkage designs available commercially including for single carb they all use a cable/s, from the likes of rally design and demon tweeks I would go that route as I'll bet you are not getting the full throttle travel with what's there, as that was what happened with 2 of our rally cars the pukka linkage alliviates this, there are in line and across engine type linkages available, both ours are now the twin cable type and work really well

[Neil Clark]

Thanks Hugh.  Turns out that the Mk1 accelerator linkage as modified and shown in the photo is now too butchered to be adapted for the cable.  On the advice of Will I've got hold of the accelerator set up from a Mk2 and am going for the cable solution.

[Neil Clark]

Good progress.  Got the rear end dismantled apart from removing the diff, and today removed most of the front suspension.  Amazingly the wishbones etc seem undamaged.  Not sure about the anti-roll bar n/s threaded end but I'll test fit it to the new chassis first before deciding.  It's a lovely accessible car to work on compared to my MGB GT.

The n/s engine mount photo shows how much the chassis twisted laterally in the crash, and the o/s front photo shows a crease that has trapped the bolt for the lower wishbone.   From todays task list it was the the only part I couldn't remove and as it was going dark so I'll leave it till tomorrow. 

[Neil Clark]

Thankfully dry, my son arrived at 10.15, my neighbour made the mistake of walking past at 10.45 and never left and my wife provided the bacon sandwiches, tea and celebratory beer.  Thanks to all the fantastic advice from you all here, the owners and restoration manuals, the free Moss parts catalogue with exploded drawings, the hours making sure I had thought through the sequence and getting all the right bolts and especially new washers and Nyloc's we got the body replaced by 5.30pm.  Not bolted down but the bolts all fitted into the right holes.  The unexpected was the powder coating build up on the new chassis making fitting the diff unit a lot harder.  I am more than glad that this was done with the body off.  The other minor thing to deal with is that the replacement chassis does not have the handbrake cable brackets where the cable needs holding near the rear wheels but that is a fairly easy fix.  Then to cut the Mk1 hinges off the old chassis and have them welded on to this one.

[Pete Lewis]

well done      .... you will soon be out in her 

pete

[Neil Clark]

There is something very exciting about fitting a new sump drain plug, filling the engine with new oil - and then terrifying when I remember that I also drained the gearbox.  Earlier I painted the new radiator support frame and the Mk2 accelerator pedal assembly ahead of connecting it up to the Weber via cable and the Mangoletsi linkage.  The PO's re-builder did a fantastic job on the body and running gear but odd ideas around the carburettor.  The more I look at the scorch marks made by the ridiculous solid rod accelerator linkage that ran against the exhaust manifold and that has melted the choke cable I have to wonder if that jammed and led to the car visiting the tree.

[Colin Lindsay]

On 08/03/2020 at 06:53, Neil Clark said:

 

 

 

Doesn't that expression just say it all????

[Pete Lewis]

a good few choke and other cables suffer when there is no engine earth strap.... just a idea 

pete

[Neil Clark]

There is an earth strap Pete.  The choke cable ran near the throttle rod which itself had to be hot from the manifold. 

[Neil Clark]

Re-assembling the front suspension but found that I had forgotten to get some of the right nylocs.  So I put the n/s together anyway and will change the nylocs later.  The offside has to wait until I can get to a press for the wishbone bushes, the rear until I can get the handbrake cable guides welded on.   The new chassis does not have them for some reason but I can see where the old ones were cut off and fortunately I did cut them off my own damaged chassis.  And postie (bless them for working just now) only brought paperwork, not the items I need to get the radiator support assembled and installed.  Oh and I fitted a new fan belt.

[Neil Clark]

I fitted the Mangoletsi linkage to the Weber and started planning a route for the accelerator cable.  It's a bit "round the houses" but I think it will work.  Then I found that the new rubber bushes on the differential casing arms have not settled into their recesses in the chassis, so that will have to be tomorrows project.

[DanMi]

not sure how you are getting on with the bonnet but just spotted this on ebay not cheap but looks pretty solid

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/triumph-spitfire-mk2-bonnet/174243739535?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D8b03f45339d94331b29abbcd60675923%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D264692578052%26itm%3D174243739535%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A36479eb5-7971-11ea-8321-ce6ae2775303|parentrq%3A58dc6f731710a4d23a4172fdfff02240|iid%3A1

[Neil Clark]

Sorry Dan - missed your post.  I found one on eBay last month on a stalled restoration.   Fair price too.  It's having to wait a while though since collection is impossible just now.  

At least the delay has made me focus on how on fitting handbrake guides.  I had to cut these off my old chassis since the "new" chassis arrived with only the stub of the guide still attached, the curved section missing.  I've spent today trimming and filing and working out how to attach the others since I can't cut out all of the bit left without wrecking the diff mounting.  I think I've got it now and got locations for a strong mount using nuts and bolts, flush against the original plate.

[Neil Clark]

All four corners now back on the car, along with the modified handbrake guides, the assembly and the cable.  Tomorrow the brake pipes etc, torque up the new nuts and bolts that can be done ahead of putting on the wheels.  Very happy.  It's beer o'clock.