jean ingo Posted February 8, 2020 Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 HELLO FOLKS I'm quite new here and just bought a few month ago a herald 13/60 project. I would like to go for a 2000/2500 6cyl swap. Is someone out there to give me a few information what I have to modify may at the bulkhead or gearbox tunnel, propshaft,mounts etc.... does it made sense to do a swap or does it need to extensive mods Many thanks Jean I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted February 8, 2020 Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 Hi Jean. Maybe a good idea to do a search first on this site and general google, as a lot to do, as far as, diff, gearbox, brakes, suspension just for starters. Fair bit of info out there. Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Clark Posted February 8, 2020 Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 It's quite a big job to fit a 6 pot motor in Herald (or a Spitfire). You will need a 2 litre gearbox, higher ratio diff, stronger front springs, bigger brakes... The list goes on. Just look at how much the factory changed when developing the Vitesse. A nice upgrade for a Herald that's much easier, is to fit a Spitfire 1500 engine, preferably with overdrive gearbox. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted February 8, 2020 Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 I agree with Nigel - go the 1500 route. Almost as much performance (the car remains quite a bit lighter than with a six) for massively less hassle. If you do want a 6-cylinder Herald, the easy route is to start with a Vitesse! You'll need to fit so many Vitesse parts that you're going to need one anyway as a donor car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 I agree with both Nigel and Rob. In the past I have carried out both change to the 13/60 and the 1500 option is the better way to go. With a Mk3 Spit profile cam and better breathing the 1500 gives around 85 BHP and a lot more torque than the 1300 engine. Also fit overdrive as the 1500 is a lower reving more torquey engine. The 6 pot engine makes the front heaver which does effect the handling to some degree. In my case the 13/60 was an Estate. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 If you have deep enough pockets and not worried about originality fit 1500 engine do the necessary head and higher compression mods, change camshaft and exhaust system. Then for ultimate control fit Jenvey heritage throttle bodies, they look like Webers. Should be a flyer with less weight up front than 6 pot and look great! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 Or take the approach of one of our local members and fit EFI. That car is fairly quick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean ingo Posted February 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 Hello Folks Goodness such a great knowledge here, many thanks to everyone and Iain with the details of the jenvey heritage I didn't know them I think I will go to the spitfire option I'll keep updated I've oown years ago a green vitesse from Leicester I love them but unfortunately I sold them. If someone comes around to a brave vitesse saloon project let me know. I'm a jagman as well but this is based on my apprenticeship I've done 35years ago at the end of British Leyland time.yes often the pockets are not deep enough to buy all classic cars I like. So rolling projects and handcraft experience is my plus. Cheers Jean i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 Hi Jean, Unless you want to drive around at 6000rpm what you really need is to wring as much torque out of the 1500 as possible with a nice wide band. Apart from getting all the basic mechanicals (obviously cheaper with a 4 pot than 6) correct Jenvey Heritage or the simpler and less expensive fuel injection system from KEE Automotive do make a difference as they not only control the fuel/air mixture but also ignition timing. Obviously before you jump in financially it's not only the engine but a o/d gearbox, new prop shaft etc to consider. The depth of technical expertise, as I have found out, in the forum should be able to guide you which ever way you go. Best of luck Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 Is overdrive essential? I know its considered desireable but could a 1500 Herald pull a higher ratio diff like the Spitfire does? This would save the not inconsiderable cost of prop and gearbox and should make 1st and other gears more suitable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, johny said: This would save the not inconsiderable cost of prop and gearbox and should make 1st and other gears more suitable... I was thinking that by the time you pay for all those bits, you may as well have bought a Vitesse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 Good point, just do the engine change, drive it and see if it floats your boat. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 Colin, true things do run away. I talked to a Healey owner who spent £30k on his engine alone and that was 10 years ago!! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Iain T said: Colin, true things do run away. I talked to a Healey owner who spent £30k on his engine alone and that was 10 years ago!! Iain Yes Iain... been there too many times! Taken a car, modified it, tuned it and added all sorts of nice bits... then sold it and someone else enjoyed all that work! Thankfully I've more or less better sense these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 40 minutes ago, johny said: Is overdrive essential? I know its considered desireable but could a 1500 Herald pull a higher ratio diff like the Spitfire does? When we dropped a 1500 into a Herald estate - using the original 13/60 manifolds, carb and exhaust - it was obvious it could pull longer gearing, especially in first. The 3.63:1 diff is almost essential. Overdrive is a very nice addition for higher speed cruising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 To paraphrase JFK, 'we choose to modify our cars not because it's easy but because we want to empty our bank accounts!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 You can paraphrase me, if you want. "My bank account is empty so it's a great incentive to maximise the efficiency of what I have already... as there won't be anything else... !" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 2 hours ago, johny said: Is overdrive essential? I know its considered desireable but could a 1500 Herald pull a higher ratio diff like the Spitfire does? This would save the not inconsiderable cost of prop and gearbox and should make 1st and other gears more suitable... I found the 3.89 diff was OK on the Estate even when fully loaded up with camping gear. A 3.63 should be OK on lighter Saloon or Convertible. As interest the last of the 1500 Dolomites used a 3.63 without any problems, they are around the same weight as the Herald. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 Yes I see it looks like the 13/60 has a lower first gear than all the 1500 engined vehicles (all other forward ratios are the same) so it should be able to start off with the 3.63 diff without undue slipping of the clutch but then itll have to be revved a bit before selecting second.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 What we found was that, when pulling out of a T-junction, the 3.63 meant you were just nicely settled on the new road before wanting to change up, which is far better than feeling the need to change mid-manoeuvre like the 4.11 did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted February 9, 2020 Report Share Posted February 9, 2020 Cor think I might put a 1500 in my Vitesse it sounds so good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpbarrett Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 My 13/60 has gone down this route over the 15 years I have owned her. 1) 1300 twin carbs and better exhaust, slightly better than standard but fiddly to get the tuning right. 2) 1500 engine, twin carbs, exhaust O/D gearbox. Really noticeable difference, lots of torque. 3) rebuilt 1500 engine, uprated head (not sure what was done to it as it came from a friend), Newman cam, rebuilt OD 3 rail gearbox with GT6 ratio gear set, diff changed to 3.89 full EFI using Jenvery throttle bodies, wasted spark ignition, Megasquirt MX2 with upgraded processor. Polybush all round, new disks, Mintex pads, new front springs, rear spring new shocks, adjustable in the front. Goes very very well,lots of torque and will return over 40MPG when cruising, And stops and goes round corners. It also has MX5 seats and 2 speed plus interrupt wipers, and larger Vitesse fuel tank. Uprated headlights and relays. Very empty wallet, spent much more than the car is worth but very enjoyable to drive mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 we have local 1200 with a 3.63 :1 and its fine , only runs two up and shopping in the boot no bags of cement , Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted February 11, 2020 Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 The 1500 is not as sweat and is a bit agricultural when compared with the six cylinder, but it does do it's job. Also the car still feels and sounds like a Herald. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Clark Posted February 11, 2020 Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 8 hours ago, dave.vitesse said: The 1500 is not as sweat and is a bit agricultural when compared with the six cylinder, but it does do it's job. The Spit 1500 engine will never be as sweet as a six but it's a decent enough engine. If I was rebuilding a 1500, I'd have crank, conrods, pistons, flywheel etc fully balanced to smooth things out. That said, most Spit 1500 owners seem happy enough with their engines. As has been said, the four cylinder 1500 is a much easier conversion than fitting a six into a Herald 13/60. With a Mk3 camshaft and a bit of gas flowing on the cylinder head, it would be decently quick on SU carbs. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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