Oil filter conundrum

[PatrickB02]

Hi all,

Newbie here, so hope I am posting in the right place.

I want to change the oil filter in my Vitesse engined kit car (RMB Gentry), but I can't make out what type it is.  The Haynes manual shows a Delco and a Purolator, but the filter housing on the engine doesn't look like either of those.  I have attached some photos, and hope that somebody might be able to point me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Guest]

Hello Patrick,

Your car has the original paper element housing filter assembly.

You need a paper unit to replace it, plenty of listings.

If you feel able, you could convert this system to the more agreeable disposable spin on filter set-up.

Plenty of past threads on this Forum discussing such.

Regards.

Richard.

[PatrickB02]

Hi Richard,

That's great, many thanks.

Patrick

[dougbgt6]

Patrick,

The club shop sell the spin on/off conversion kit.

Doug

[NonMember]

You'll find the access / space available for the spin-on conversion may be troublesome. The original filter works fine and, as Richard said, the paper elements are readily available.

[JohnD]

The problem with the OE filter is that it empties back into the sump when stationary.     This means that the engine bearings must survive on what little oil remains in them, until that big filter housing can  refill with oil from the pump and receive a new supply via the oilways.    Some worn engines will give a 'death rattle' on startup, that goes away once the oil gets there.

The spin on adaptation allows the use of a filter that won't automatically empty, because it hangs lower than the exit,  because the spin-on casing is much smaller, so less volume to replace and because the filter casing includes a non-return valve.     But not all filters do.   Look at the face of the filter, into the little holes in the rim - there should be a rubber membrane behind them.

Troublesome, says NM.   You will find that the spin-on cannot be mounted with the filter vertical, and must be angled forwards, but it still does the job!

John

[Pete Lewis]

there are two depths of original filter  here are the club shop/generic numbers 

 GT6 had a thinner one  GFE138

  All   Vitesse  is GFE131  which is a deeper element

when replacing always check the new 0 ring is fully seated down inside the stepped  location groove  or you chop it fitting the canister back on 

never add a new seal without removing the old one .        its hiding in there in the dark

Pete

[PatrickB02]

Thanks for the additional comments, guys.  I will stick with the OE filter for now, and have ordered some GFE131 elements from Rimmers.

Cheers,

Patrick

[Guest]

Try Canley Classics in future, Patrick, they tend to be cheaper than Rimmers - certainly worth comparing; that said Rimmers will price match if you can be bothered to jump the hoops.

Regards.

Richard.

[Guest]

Hello Patrick,

Following on from the spin-on filter canisters mentioned above; if you ever do decide to go spin-on at some stage - it will be worth obtaining the Mann W714/2 oil filters. These are a little less high than the normal size spin-on filters which in turn allows the filter to be slightly more vertical on fitting.

Of note the W714/2 filters have 2x non-return valves which prevents oil drain back. It was in fact Nick Jones who flagged these on the TSSC Forum, as such I am grateful to him.

Photo attached to show height difference as mentioned.

Regards.

Richard.

 

[Peter Truman]

Patrick hijacking your thread a moment and harking back to Pete’s last comment re GT6 filter being shorter GFE138 and being housed in a shallower bowl WHY is it so? The GT & Vitesse have the same chassis set up at the filter location and same engine/location so why did Triumph specify a shorter and hence less capacity oil filter for the GT6 any logic Pete that you can think of.

I’ve brought the spin on adapter twice and both times given up on installing because the limited ability to install anywhere near vertical from memory forward. Towards the blow off assembly seemed the best pointing very slightly down from horizontal maybe would work better with the Mann as shorter would love to see a photo of it installed on Vitesse

Peter T

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Peter Truman said:

Towards the blow off assembly seemed the best pointing very slightly down from horizontal maybe would work better with the Mann as shorter would love to see a photo of it installed on Vitesse

Hello Peter,

On the Vitesse, the orange FRAM filter sits at about 50 degrees - I have yet to fit the Mann filter but will be doing so in the next couple of weeks with a pencilled in oil change. Once done, I will post photos of the Mann filter in situ.

Regards.

Richard.

[Pete Lewis]

without doing some digging i have no idea why the GT6 has the thinner filter  the chassis is different to the Vitesse more spitfire based so clearance with the chassis rails     the idea stems from somewhere .  the clearance to the chassis gets my vote 

Pete. 

[dougbgt6]

I have the spin on/off adapter, my filter cartridge sits at a jaunty 45 degrees, and the anti drain valve (it's just a rubber flap!) works OK. I have seen them virtually horizontal and still working. The Mann filter, all though shorter, will not get me much nearer vertical.  I may be naïve, but isn't the smaller filter less efficient? Or at least need changing more often? 

Doug

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

I may be naïve, but isn't the smaller filter less efficient? Or at least need changing more often? 

Indeed not Doug, you should see some of the modern filter sizes - top pocket size !!

Regards.

Richard.

[dougbgt6]

Hmm, 

Mr Suspicious

[johny]

I would argue yes, with the filters that fit our cars, smaller means less filtration surface area. Maybe modern filters are small but theyve found a way to increase that area or is it that modern engines just run cleaner? Anyway less area means blocking up quicker however as classic cars normally do few miles filters are changed for time not mileage reasons so filter size doesnt matter. 

[Peter Truman]

yep modern car oil filters can be small, the now defunct Aus Commodore V6 paper oil filter is no bigger than a lawn mower small paper air filter and sits level with the top of the engine in an alloy canister the canister also sits upside down so it dumps oil as removed and the securing thread is so fine its easy to strip, a great leap backwards, Oh servicing is every 15k klm.

[Herald948]

First time I saw filters on modern Hondas and such, I also was surprised at how small they were compared to the oil filters I was used to: not only the typical spin-on filter of a 1200 Herald but the yet older filters found on 1950s American cars, with a cannister almost the size of a coffee can! But remember, dinosaurs were less refined 50-60 years ago, so the oil they produced wasn't as good.

[rlubikey]

10 hours ago, Herald948 said:

But remember, dinosaurs were less refined 50-60 years ago, so the oil they produced wasn't as good.

That sounds like a Dr. Science answer! Does that still run on PBR?

13 hours ago, dougbgt6 said:

isn't the smaller filter less efficient? Or at least need changing more often?

Doug, that diddy little Mann W77 filter I bought to East Berks had an application list of small Fiats and Peugeots ... and a Maserati. So I reckon it will be good enough for our cars. Even with the anti run back valve (or valves, depending on type) oil still drains if you leave your car long enough. And the smaller the filter, the quicker it fills. Personally, when filters cost £6 or £7, I change them each time I do the oil.

Cheers, Richard

[dougbgt6]

My question was hypothetical at best, I change my oil and filter once a year so I'm not bovvered! 

Doug

[Colin Lindsay]

12 hours ago, Herald948 said:

First time I saw filters on modern Hondas and such, I also was surprised at how small they were compared to the oil filters I was used to

I'm amazed at the size of the paper filter on the Freelander 2, which is tiny compared to my Herald filter; then again it has to be as it's shoehorned away up in the engine bay and you need tentacles to get near it.

All of my moderns now use paper filters in a plastic housing; must be a cost-cutting exercise.

[Peter Truman]

Pete L, a check of my Vit/GT6 Manual shows the GT6 & Vitesse chassis has the same distance across for the main chassis rails where the engine is, the front turrents and engine mounts are the same, and the front outrigger to bulkhead mounting bolt is in the same position (different outriggers tho), so relatively the GT6 & Vitesse engine to chassis, suspension and body appears the same, so I still don't understand why the GT6 has a shallower oil filter other than yet another Triumph irregularity.

It's always made me wonder why. I have a stock of Vitesse/Saloon oil filter elements so won't be changing in a hurry.

Pete don't waste any time on researching it, I won't loose any sleep.  

Peter T

[dave.vitesse]

Only the early Vitesse ( Sports 6) were exported to the states. Whereas the GT6 was exported through it's life and I can only guess that different filters may have been available in counties over it's life?

As Peter T said , I won't loose any sleep. Well as for the Vanguard 6 or all the other six cylinder Triumphs we would be here all day!

As for the smaller filters on the modern stuff. Both oils and engines are very different than the original oil and old metal under the bonnets of our Triumphs. Problems start when they start to apply the later application to the early technology.

The four cylinder ( SC engine) Unipart filters in the 1970's could come in different sizes under the same part number, different manufacturers  I guess.

Dave

[NonMember]

2 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

All of my moderns now use paper filters in a plastic housing; must be a cost-cutting exercise.

Not quite. I was rather amused, some twenty years back, in the foyer of the BMW "four cylinder" building in Munich, to see a display engine touting their latest "environmentally friendly innovations", which included using a replaceable paper element oil filter instead of the disposable spin-on canister. Less waste, better for the environment, and so innovative, to do exactly what three (at the time) of my 30-year-old classics had done.