Camber compensator for Triumph Herald 13 60

[jiggawhat2k]

The plan is to track the car occasionally and to do sprints initially, so I want to get the rear suspension in good shape.

So far I have Gaz dampers on the rear plus a 1 inch lowering block, it isn't too low at the moment (could be lower) but needs a bit of time to settle as it's still being built. Looks to be 0 degrees negative camber at the moment on rear.

Front has gaz adjustable coilovers with a couple of degrees of negative camber.

Keen to be able to drive it hard at these sort of events without worrying about spinning (or worse) when I inevitably run out of talent. 

I read on a different forum that a camber compensator was better for the rear than a swing spring conversion as there is less roll with a compensator. Understand it sucks for clearance but I don't mind about that. 

Do others agree? Camber compensator better for track? I can't find anyone selling them, which maybe means they're not actually as good as I have read!!

Been posting a lot on the forum but you're all so helpful, learning a lot so thank you.

 

[68vitesse]

Some recon a courier rear spring is the best for handling, if you can find one.

Regards

Paul

[Clive]

Joe Curry in the USA is the chap who makes them (I think!)

I used a courier spring with a 1" lowering block on my herald, behaved well on autosolos with 440lb front springs. Not particularly low, as the car did a lot of 12 car rallies where ground clearance is needed!

I also removed the front ARB to improve turn-in, maybe not so important on track?

 

Owen Springs will make whatever you want

[jiggawhat2k]

Interesting, hadn't heard of the courier spring solution. Canley seem to sell them new (although only to order), will check with Owen Springs first though, thanks for the tip! Thanks Clive, thanks Paul

 

[Herald948]

46 minutes ago, clive said:

Joe Curry in the USA is the chap who makes them (I think!)

 

Well, he was the chap who made them. He's now passed the project onto a Ralph Hansen, who is tooling up to continue manufacture of them.

[Clive]

1 hour ago, jiggawhat2k said:

Interesting, hadn't heard of the courier spring solution. Canley seem to sell them new (although only to order), will check with Owen Springs first though, thanks for the tip! Thanks Clive, thanks Paul

 

Owen springs will make it lowered/decambered if u=you wish, and would even add extra leaves etc depending on how stiff you want it. But the courier spring is pretty strong as std. And decambered would mean it would be a bit longer too, you really want negative camber.  (you could use the longer spit driveshafts, but may run into arch clearance issues)

I would suggest you choose wheels/tyres with care. Avoid anything with too low a profile like the plague! (60 absolute minimum at the rear, 65 better, 70 very good...) Wheel offset will be pretty critical too.

[jiggawhat2k]

16 hours ago, clive said:

Owen springs will make it lowered/decambered if u=you wish, and would even add extra leaves etc depending on how stiff you want it. But the courier spring is pretty strong as std. And decambered would mean it would be a bit longer too, you really want negative camber.  (you could use the longer spit driveshafts, but may run into arch clearance issues)

I would suggest you choose wheels/tyres with care. Avoid anything with too low a profile like the plague! (60 absolute minimum at the rear, 65 better, 70 very good...) Wheel offset will be pretty critical too.

Thanks Clive, so if it was decambered (so flatter?) then that would mean more negative camber yes?

[Paul H]

In the late 60’s I purchased a SAH rear spring which was shorter and gave negative camber to my herald 

Paul 

[jiggawhat2k]

17 hours ago, clive said:

Owen springs will make it lowered/decambered if u=you wish, and would even add extra leaves etc depending on how stiff you want it. But the courier spring is pretty strong as std. And decambered would mean it would be a bit longer too, you really want negative camber.  (you could use the longer spit driveshafts, but may run into arch clearance issues)

I would suggest you choose wheels/tyres with care. Avoid anything with too low a profile like the plague! (60 absolute minimum at the rear, 65 better, 70 very good...) Wheel offset will be pretty critical too.

Thanks Clive, so if it was decambered (so flatter?) then that would mean more negative camber yes?

[jiggawhat2k]

@clive Talked to Owen Springs, they were really helpful. They couldn't find a design for a Triumph Courier spring but they're looking into whether they can do a Herald spring (they have the specs for those) to the higher Courier strength of 550lbs/in and slightly decamber it. Will update once I hear back!

Cheers again, Jim

[Clive]

The courier spring was very much flatter than a normal herald one.

 

Bill at rarebits (sadly no longer trading) had some made, and is where I got mine from (12 years ago, maybe more) so the specs are out there. Somebody may still have one they can measure?

[Steve P]

I have an unfitted Courier spring in my lockup if you want me to measure it,i bought it years ago for my Vitesse,after fitting it sat Waaay too high,even with a lowering block and the camber was awful(positive)

I re-fitted my old Triumphtune item from the 80`s which is lower and gives negative camber.I run 6 inch Revolutions on mine.

Steve

[jiggawhat2k]

On 04/03/2020 at 17:33, clive said:

The courier spring was very much flatter than a normal herald one.

 

Bill at rarebits (sadly no longer trading) had some made, and is where I got mine from (12 years ago, maybe more) so the specs are out there. Somebody may still have one they can measure?

@clive thank you these are so helpful, have sent on to Owen springs to help them spec it up. Cheers 

[jiggawhat2k]

On 04/03/2020 at 19:09, Steve P said:

I have an unfitted Courier spring in my lockup if you want me to measure it,i bought it years ago for my Vitesse,after fitting it sat Waaay too high,even with a lowering block and the camber was awful(positive)

I re-fitted my old Triumphtune item from the 80`s which is lower and gives negative camber.I run 6 inch Revolutions on mine.

Steve

Thanks Steve interesting that it had positive camber, possibly due to it being less laden maybe? (the spec shared by Clive indicates negative camber of 1.75 when fully laden)?

I'm going to get owen springs to spec it and I've asked them to see if they can decamber it to drop it 2 inches. Will let you know how I get on! Thanks for the offer. 

Would you consider selling the courier spring if I don't have any luck? I could flip a couple of the springs over potentially, flatten it out a bit. 

Cheers very much! Jim 

[Clive]

I have decided trying to spec a spring is very very difficult.

But the easiest way is to start with the spring strength you want, then fit and use. Work out how much it "compresses" and the load. Then you can decide how much flatter the spring would need to be. Then get it reset by a good company, or use a lowering block.

 

My car used the courier spring with a 1" block, but it didn't settle until I collected about 150-200kg of tiles  and encountered some speed humps. That dropped it about an inch permanently. Still not low. But maintained ground clearance at a sensible level. 

Just some ramblings....

 

[Pete Lewis]

link to someones pic of my Vit6 on one of Bills   courier  springs  and 1" block 

 

[jiggawhat2k]

12 hours ago, clive said:

I have decided trying to spec a spring is very very difficult.

But the easiest way is to start with the spring strength you want, then fit and use. Work out how much it "compresses" and the load. Then you can decide how much flatter the spring would need to be. Then get it reset by a good company, or use a lowering block.

 

My car used the courier spring with a 1" block, but it didn't settle until I collected about 150-200kg of tiles  and encountered some speed humps. That dropped it about an inch permanently. Still not low. But maintained ground clearance at a sensible level. 

Just some ramblings....

 

HA nice technique for getting more lowness! I've not worked with leaf springs before, it seems like it's basically luck of the draw as to how low they end up...

[jiggawhat2k]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

link to someones pic of my Vit6 on one of Bills   courier  springs  and 1" block 

 

It looks like a decent height, usable. 

Incredible looking car btw, so clean.

[Pete Lewis]

sold her to get the 2000 mk2 saloon     sad day   she was a flying 1600   not many cactus/black around now 

and an exhaust on song to die for . now more pipe ans slippers motoring  Ha !

before  courier i went through a decamber moss spring  a real saggy thing  off a pram , tried a swinger but again with a boot full and passengers always bottomed the shockers so no ride and ever going lower , used short shock and just went lower ended up with 10deg neg camber and ride quality of a skate board..  i guess a std spring with a block would have sufficed, but the stiff courier holds the wheels like on rails 

contrary to many i kept the thick front anti roll with no problems of understeer that some get 

do set front/ rear tracking up correctly , important what ever is used see post on  Toe in the simple way 

Pete

[jiggawhat2k]

18 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

sold her to get the 2000 mk2 saloon     sad day   she was a flying 1600   not many cactus/black around now 

and an exhaust on song to die for . now more pipe ans slippers motoring  Ha !

Haha, better for calmly cruising I guess!? I particularly like the 2500 estate, fun looking thing. You regret selling the Vitesse?

[Pete Lewis]

regret  ...yes  . but needs must we are often 4 up golden oldies and 4 doors and armchair was in need   

Pete

[jiggawhat2k]

4 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

before  courier i went through a decamber moss spring  a real saggy thing  off a pram , tried a swinger but again with a boot full and passengers always bottomed the shockers so no ride and ever going lower , used short shock and just went lower ended up with 10deg neg camber and ride quality of a skate board..  i guess a std spring with a block would have sufficed, but the stiff courier holds the wheels like on rails 

I'm looking to get it nice and stiff so i can trundle around the odd track without worrying too much about tucking the rears, so the courier solution still seems like a good one. Thanks!

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, jiggawhat2k said:

I'm looking to get it nice and stiff 

As Pete says he used to have one like that, but then he 'sold her to get the 2000'... and so doesn't have one no more.

[jiggawhat2k]

Owen Springs have come back with £264 incl vat and delivery for a herald style spring with the spring rate of a courier spring, with about 2 degrees negative camber. 

Seems reasonable to me considering is a bit custom, similar to a swing spring conversion kit. 

Will probably go for it, once I have it will report back! 

[PeteH]

1cwt bag, mixed sand and gravel, sorted wife's Vitesse. Kept it in the boot unless we needed the space.

Pete

for those brought up on S I read 50kg

Pete