Cylinder Head Gasket Oil Leaks

[daverclasper]

6 hours ago, Nick Jones said:

Dave, the cap on mine, which looks just like that, has no valve in it. Just a metering orifice and a pellet of wire wool under the cap.

Mine too. It describes that filler cap in one manual, as a one way a one valve and I wondered why mine isn't. 

[GT6M]

That redundant fuel pump hole int side oft block,

its not O shaped , but moer an elongated hole

 

15 mm will suffice, but 22mm will be even better

but only prob, 22 is bigger thant hole int block across

but not in height.

 

solutionee is t,shape the 22 mm end into shape oft hole

then solder that to a plate, then add a pipe to it

it need t,be aboot 3-4 inches high if not used wid a catch tank,

as the pressure an the speed of exiting gasses can blow the oil along way upt pipe,

 

the bit wot the black ipe fits onto is a 22 mm pipe

 

 

M

[Nigel Clark]

Thank you Marcus. I can't fit exactly the same breather arrangement as your car on the TR6, as the PI metering unit is in the way.

I've been measuring up the fuel pump opening on a spare engine and will make a new blanking plate and adaptor from a bit of spare 10mm alloy. From there, I plan to take a hose up to a vented catch tank mounted on the bulkhead.

Nigel

 

[GT6M]

Ahaa, f,got ye running PI

butt, there aint much room b,int the MU if i recaal.

it,ll possibly have t,be flat an wide

 

Butt, I,d got for another breather ont rocker box

just cos there nee room on a PI block

[Nigel Clark]

46 minutes ago, GT6M said:

Ahaa, f,got ye running PI

butt, there aint much room b,int the MU if i recaal.

it,ll possibly have t,be flat an wide

 

Butt, I,d got for another breather ont rocker box

just cos there nee room on a PI block

Hi Marcus, 

There's just enough room under the PI metering unit to fit a hose via an adaptor in the fuel pump blanking plate, with the hose routed horizontally under the M/U then up to a catch tank on the bulkhead.  That's pretty much what John D has done on his PI Vitesse.

I've had a good look and it shouldn't even be necessary to disturb the M/U to fit the breather.

Nigel

[Peter Truman]

Marcus I'd love to see another pic of that side of the engine showing the other oil attachments, I  can see the oil pressure switch and I assume that's the oil pressure gauge next to it, but what is the oil pressure offtake under the fuel pump flange?

All very tidy, clean and functionally  laid out.

Peter T 

[thescrapman]

That under the fuel pump hole is Marcus' patented oil system pre-pressuriser. 

[GT6M]

Yes, f,got  its just under the MU, but ye can see that the holes muchess bigguss than a 1/2 pipe

go for the biggest ye can get in, as said, a 22 mm pipe squashes moer or less t,that shap,e

and alot easier whenst yer work,n on  aa spare engine ont bench !!

 

 re oil pipes for Pete,

Yip, Cols spot on, its a engine pre oiler, an oil feed if I get oil surge starvation.

oils yer engin  befoer its started, after even a 2-3 week sit.

cost me less than a 5,er t,mek it, as had all bits int shed,  the solonoid valve was  of flea bay.

 

put it on here yonks ago,  as weel as other sites.

total apathy towards it frae the .. My engine dont rattle on start up,   my engine dont need it, my engines never rattled,  Brigade.

 

 pics sent to ye

[Peter Truman]

40 minutes ago, GT6M said:

Yes, f,got  its just under the MU, but ye can see that the holes muchess bigguss than a 1/2 pipe

go for the biggest ye can get in, as said, a 22 mm pipe squashes moer or less t,that shap,e

and alot easier whenst yer work,n on  aa spare engine ont bench !!

 

 re oil pipes for Pete,

Yip, Cols spot on, its a engine pre oiler, an oil feed if I get oil surge starvation.

oils yer engin  befoer its started, after even a 2-3 week sit.

cost me less than a 5,er t,mek it, as had all bits int shed,  the solonoid valve was  of flea bay.

 

put it on here yonks ago,  as weel as other sites.

total apathy towards it frae the .. My engine dont rattle on start up,   my engine dont need it, my engines never rattled,  Brigade.

 

 pics sent to ye

Thanks Marcus for the pics and explanation, I'll keep a copy of pic & reference for future use, the only way I stop the rattle after a lay period is the old way of spinning the engine with the starter for 15sec then pull the choke and hopefully she then starts usually does but the plugs are fouled and I'd hate to count the number of times I've had to replace the NKG plugs after a short period of use, now got Champions fitted would love to know where there made.

At the other end of a cars run on my Mk2 Vitesse to stop engine 'run on' I use a Lucas anti run on valve which vents the inlet manifold, it shuts on ignition switched on and opens when ignition is switched off.  it's the only way I can stop run on other than stalling with the clutch. To stop the car normally ie automatically I found I had to lean out the carbs till the plugs were white & I was uncomfortable with that set up, hence the anti run on valve.

[thescrapman]

Peter, which NGK were you using? I kept fouling the 6, but the 5 seemed to be much better. They did still foul occasionally. And I found a good scrub, then a rinse with thinners, and cooking on the stove for 5 minutes sorted them.

I am now using the 3-pronged Bosch, they are very hard to foul, though the PI in the alps seemed quite adept at it.

[Nigel Clark]

18 minutes ago, thescrapman said:

Peter, which NGK were you using? I kept fouling the 6, but the 5 seemed to be much better. They did still foul occasionally. And I found a good scrub, then a rinse with thinners, and cooking on the stove for 5 minutes sorted them.

I am now using the 3-pronged Bosch, they are very hard to foul, though the PI in the alps seemed quite adept at it.

I've used 4 electrode Bosch WR78 which are easy to find and work well. I also use 3 electrode NGK BUR6ET and never had a problem with them either.

Nigel

[Nick Jones]

Some NGKs stop working for ever if they ever get significantly fuel wetted. Especially when newish. This makes them worthless for PI.

Champion..... yeah. I wouldn’t even use them in garden equipment. Just had one fail in my lawnmower (internal resistor failed - went to 26k) and take the magneto with it. Then a week later the same failure in my strimmer, though thankfully the magneto survived.

As Nigel says, Bosch 3 or 4 prong for the win. Triumph engines love them. W7DTC (non-resistive, very hard to find now), WR7DTC (resistive, also getting hard to find) or FR78X which seem to be the easily available modern ones with 4 prongs. Just fitted a set to the Spit.

Nick

[Peter Truman]

BP6ES single electrode & I've got 12 of the buggers new in their box's, its getting hard to get Bosch here in Aus appears as if Bosch are trying to get out of the market.

I think the Champion were off ebay ex UK as a special.

Will try the above options, might have to fall back to the NGK BUR6ET.

Were using Bosch in the daughters Mk2 Spit, been in there around 5 years and say 15,000 klm, I should change them.

I've got Unipart plugs in the Dolly Sprint, they were supplied by a friend they were new old stock probably 20 plus years old, there OK. I had a lot of HT lead issues with the original screw thro pin into the HT lead & original side entry type dist cap (using Luminition Magnatronic) this resulted in the NGK's being scrapped there.

Peter T 

[NonMember]

The weird thing is that I find the NGKs always give trouble on the GT6 but the very same plugs from the same batch are absolutely fine on the Vitesse and the Spitfire.

[Pete Lewis]

think this all goes back the the post on spark plugs which had a lot of data about crap modern plugs  that these days do not have the electrode ceramics glazed and they absorb waste fueling any rich running even on choke and they are then going to be problematic  a good burn with a blow lamp etc  presumably burns off the contamination and theres a chance of revival 

it implied bosch still glaze theirs which could be why they are becoming the latest favourites 

just some thoughts  

Pete

[dave.vitesse]

Pete, I agree.

Like Rod I have found NGK inconstant in their performance in a Classic car.

Dave

[Nick Jones]

Pete,

I’ve cooked a couple of failed NGKs with a blow lamp and failed to revive them. Never had that fail before. They were virtually new with just minutes of run time in my PI. Not even particularly fouled visually.

I also killed a complete set in our Nissan Primera GT by forgetting to plug in the coil pack after doing some other work so they got flooded. That really had me going as it had been running earlier that day and I’d only unplugged the coil pack to improve aces to a non-engine related part. Then no spark anywhere. I went to three different shops to avoid buying NGK to replace them!
 

Nick

[thescrapman]

Green Spark Plug company list W7DTC for £2 each.

6 shipped to Aus is £20. 😞

Try to find the 5 in NGK, bit hotter, worked for me.

[Peter Truman]

Thanks will look at

Peter T

[Nigel Clark]

Time for an update...

Today I finally got the TR6 fired up and out for a drive. I've only been 10 miles, as I don't want to push my luck before fitting a crankcase breather (that's waiting for a few bits to be delivered from eBay).

There was no sign of oil leaking from the head gasket joint. Before, it always leaked worst while warming up, so I'm hopeful it's going to remain dry. Reinzosil is the business! Even after its brief and fairly gentle run out this afternoon, there was a little oil coming from the filler cap hole, which confirms there's some pressure build up.

The car is now back in the garage, waiting for the new breather to be fitted.

Thanks for all the advice. Will report back in due course on what difference the extra breather makes.

Nigel

[Nick Jones]

Found a post I did on Sideways a while back relating to crankcase breather experimenting on my (now departed) 2.5PI.

For background, the thing slobbered and chuffed like an old steam train and "sweated" vigorously if driven moderately hard.  It also burned lots of oil.  However, as it produced excellent results on compression tests (probably because every test was effectively a wet one!), this fed my denial that the engine was actually completely knackered.

I therefore expended alot of effort treating the symptoms before taking the engine apart and discovering that the bores were badly rust-pitted, and well worn.

http://sideways-technologies.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/5682-crankcase-breather-mod/&tab=comments#comment-75002

That said, the revised system with PCV worked really well at containing the slobber and I left it on after the engine rebuild.

Nick

[Nigel Clark]

Hi Nick,

Thank you for the link to your detailed write-up on Sideways, clearly there's a lot of experience behind your post there.

I would hope my TR6 engine is in somewhat better shape than the engine you were dealing with but all the principles with regard to crankcase pressure still apply. My engine doesn't use much oil, maybe 1/2 pint per 1,000 miles and compression readings are consistent between 150-160psi dry across all cylinders. The bores looked decent when the head was off.

I'm hopeful that an extra atmospheric breather from the fuel pump aperture will stop it sweating without needing to resort to vacuum scavenging of the crankcase. Time will tell...

Nigel

[Nick Jones]

6 hours ago, Nigel Clark said:

I'm hopeful that an extra atmospheric breather from the fuel pump aperture will stop it sweating without needing to resort to vacuum scavenging of the crankcase. Time will tell...

Good chance of that I reckon.  Must sort similar for my Vitesse.

Nick

[Iain T]

A question for the technical guru's:-

If a crankcase atmospheric breather with filter is installed and the original PCV kept won't this draw air into the crank and thereby weaken the fuel mixture at higher revs? 

Iain

[JohnD]

The amount of blow by will be greatest at high revs, just because there are more power strokes.

The 'vacuum' in the intake is most when the throttle is closed - that's what the PCV is designed to do, close then to prevent excess dilution, but at high revs=Wide Open Throttle, the vacuum is least.

So, no.    I don't think that a free breather to the crank will be a problem, in the way you describe.     It may be a problem, as most only have a tiny filter on them that will soon be swamped by gunge.     There should eb a catch tank before the filter.