Spitfire bleed screws

[Kiajon]

Hello again. So, after 15 years or so, the old girls is running again. I’ve started on the fluids, greasing etc. I’m waiting for oil, coolant, new hoses etc so I thought I’d look at the brakes and I’m confused! Just for a change.

The disk callipers at the front have silver bleed screws (one of which seems completely seized - is replacing just a matter of unscrewing the old one and fitting a new one?). The rear passenger hub seems to have a standard bleed nipple (whatever the ‘standard’ is) but the driver’s side drum doesn’t. It just seems to have a screw head. Is that normal? Should I replace it for a nipple? 
I haven’t refurbed/replaced the master cylinder (yet) but I remember the brakes being pretty rubbish before. Is fitting a servo easy/recommended/possible/worth it? 

Cheers for your help again.

 

Jonathan
 

[Nick Jones]

Replacing is just a matter of unscrewing (good luck!) and screwing in new ones.

However..... after sitting around for 15 years I’d be be fitting new wheel cylinders (or new seals at the very least). I’d also be renewing the seals in the calipers (possibly pistons as well if rusty/loosing chrome) as well as refurbishing/renewing the master cylinder and renewing all the flexi-hoses.

When everything is working as it should, Spitfire brakes are pretty good, though if you mostly drive over-servoed moderns you’ll find pedal pressures higher.  What does not help with this is that many of the pad materials sold for the Spit are too hard and only marginally suitable. Strongly advise buying Mintex M1144 compound pads which have great bite from cold.

Nick

[yorkshire_spam]

1 minute ago, Nick Jones said:

Strongly advise buying Mintex M1144 compound pads which have great bite from cold.

^ what Nick said.

I had to remove the NSF caliper from my Spitfire and drill out the bleed screw last week - what a pain in the backside! Then ran a tap down the thread to clear it. 'orrible object.

18 minutes ago, Kiajon said:

It just seems to have a screw head. Is that normal?

It doesn't sound "standard". It's well worth removing the rear wheel cylinders stripping them apart, inspet the bore and either replace or (if you can source good quality parts) re-seal them. It's not hard.

As Nick says - standard brakes should be fine, mine are stock apart from being well maintained and having M1144 pads and the brake out perform the grip.

 

[NonMember]

I agree with Nick and Sam - brake parts left standing for fifteen years should be refurb'd or replaced, the oddball screw head isn't right, standard brakes work fine if properly maintained and decent pads fitted.

[Kiajon]

Cheers for all the info. Looks like the beginning of another learning curve! So, refurb everything - callipers, cylinders, new master cylinder, new flexible hoses (I assume there are 4 - not checked my manual yet), pads, and bleed screws in all four corners (rather than in three as I have at the moment! - are they all the same? Front and back bleed screws?). Is refurbing the callipers a job a technical numpty - who's quite good at reading and watching tutorial videos - could do? Or should I send them away, if so to where?

Now, where's the credit card?

 

[Pete Lewis]

not looked but some have 3 the   rears pipe into one cyl out to the other and that has the bleed . it works ok 

unfortunately  they can shear off rather than unscrew, use a socket and take it easy , some heat might help

and yes its just unscrew and refit with new one ( well easier said than done ) 

if you are less experience i would suggest exchange or as new calipers  Club shop are selling brand   NEW TYPE 14 FOR £66 EA

Pete

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

not looked but some have 3 the   rears pipe into one cyl out to the other and that has the bleed . it works ok

I think it's only the Dolomite range and TR7 (i.e. the cars with live axles) that cross-feed like that.

[Kiajon]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

not looked but some have 3 the   rears pipe into one cyl out to the other and that has the bleed . it works ok 

unfortunately  they can shear off rather than unscrew, use a socket and take it easy , some heat might help

and yes its just unscrew and refit with new one ( well easier said than done ) 

if you are less experience i would suggest exchange or as new calipers  Club shop are selling brand   NEW TYPE 14 FOR £66 EA

Pete

I did wonder whether perhaps one of the rear brakes was linked to the other. I have some night time workshop manual reading to do me thinks. 

[Pete Lewis]

just follow the pipe run you either get  supplies to each side, or one supply crossed over 

Pete

[yorkshire_spam]

3 hours ago, Kiajon said:

Is refurbing the callipers a job a technical numpty - who's quite good at reading and watching tutorial videos - could do?

Both yes... and no. It depends on how far you go and how careful you are. It could also be a false economy unless you enjoy doing the job! A rebuild kit is not a lot cheaper than a replacement caliper.

I'd start with seeing if the bleed screws and fitting come out cleanly once the caliper (and cylinder for that matter) is off the car. If the bleed screw or fitting snaps you are probably heading into more trouble than it's worth territory (drilling and cleaning the threads is not easy!) On the other hand if the come out cleanly then it might be worth refurbing them yourself.

If you get a refurb kit make sure it has "gallery seals" included, as far as I am concerned replacing seals and pistons is more hassle than it's worth unless you split the caliper, if you do that new gallery seals are essential.

 

[Kiajon]

Is there any company in particular that's best for getting my calipers returned? Preferably in the Midlands! 

[Pete Lewis]

think club shop use brake engineering   wrexham ?

http://www.brake-eng.com/en/catalogue/

whatever supplier the new is so close to the recon price they are a better bet 

Pete

 

[Clive]

10 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

think club shop use brake engineering   wrexham ?

http://www.brake-eng.com/en/catalogue/

whatever supplier the new is so close to the recon price they are a better bet 

Pete

 

Ask Nick Jones what he thinks of the new calipers! 

Buying new seems obvious, but there seem to be some "issues" with at least some of them.

[dougbgt6]

And another thing, while we’re talking braking. I’m guessing your tyres are even older than15 years, they will need to be replaced no matter how “not worn” they are. ☹️ Rubber gets less rubbery with age. 

Doug

[Pete Lewis]

yes read some of the hocus pocus of piston retractions  ....its where best to point members ???  

recommending and such is a grey area ...even for major twiddlers  Ha !

 

[yorkshire_spam]

7 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

And another thing, while we’re talking braking. I’m guessing your tyres are even older than15 years, they will need to be replaced no matter how “not worn” they are. ☹️ Rubber gets less rubbery with age. 

Doug

It's a good point Doug! I'd happily recommend Falken Sincera SN832 Ecorun tyres, it's what I have on the Spitfire - good grip and very reasonably priced. (I paid 60 quid each fitted, balanced, old tyres disposed and mobile fitting!)

[Clive]

6 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

And another thing, while we’re talking braking. I’m guessing your tyres are even older than15 years, they will need to be replaced no matter how “not worn” they are. ☹️ Rubber gets less rubbery with age. 

Doug

Good point. However, I think it is a mistake to fit new tyres at the start of a recommissioning, as many take much longer than anticipated (seen a few where the new tyres need replacing again before the car goes on the road!)

I reckon new tyres are about the last thing to be done, as in the day before the MoT is booked (which is essential to check nothing has been missed)

6 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

yes read some of the hocus pocus of piston retractions  ....its where best to point members ???  

recommending and such is a grey area ...even for major twiddlers  Ha !

 

I would choose a rebuild by a reputable company over new. And yes, parts supply is a minefield. And some suppliers are not interested if parts are substandard, they just give a returns label and probably flog them to the next punter (who they hope won't notice for a year or 2, or end up butchering the part voiding the warranty. Or am I being cynical?)

[Pete Lewis]

cynical   would we ever  !!!

Pete

[dougbgt6]

16 minutes ago, clive said:

I reckon new tyres are about the last thing to be done,

Yup, quite right! But don’t forget! 

db

[Kiajon]

Loving the advice and mild cynicism! I'd already thought about the tyres (wire wheels 155 80 r13) as they just feel very..... not rubbery! They'll be changed once I'm at a point to actually take it on the road (and down to the MOT garage) I've had a quote for refurbing the calipers and the new ones via the TSSC shop are cheaper!!! Go figure! Might need a new credit card!!!!!!

[Pete Lewis]

when you get round to new tyres get the wires trued up you will need a tyre that accepts inner tube ,  that will be fun  

really   wires  they are nasty things, just go flat at speed punctures and the rims move all over the place , fitting alloys or steel will transform the handling beyond belief

tubless certainly more stable and safety first    wires just look pretty  not much else and have you tried to remove the nuts on the hub  adaptors   truely  ..........   awful   

[Kiajon]

2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

when you get round to new tyres get the wires trued up you will need a tyre that accepts inner tube ,  that will be fun  

really   wires  they are nasty things, just go flat at speed punctures and the rims move all over the place , fitting alloys or steel will transform the handling beyond belief

tubless certainly more stable and safety first    wires just look pretty  not much else and have you tried to remove the nuts on the hub  adaptors   truely  ..........   awful   

Oh great. Another job to add to the list. And quite a nasty one! 

[Pete Lewis]

unfortunate  wires are a love em or hate em  depends what they are some do have a tubeless rim, most  dont ,  so any  puncture and instant flat , no warning

oh look here comes the hedge and ditch,   look pretty,   bitch to keep clean and if you video the way they distort ( well all wheels distort on corners) but wires are often ignored 

and slack spokes makes a unhappy car , lets  think of the time you have spare not cleaning all those ruddy spokes 

sorry its grumpy week 

Pete

[Paul H]

1 hour ago, Kiajon said:

Oh great. Another job to add to the list. And quite a nasty one! 

You could sell your wires and replace with replica Minilites about £60 each you might even have some change 

Paul 

[Gully]

Having bought new Type 16 calipers 3 years ago, I'm about to have my old proper Girling ones remanufactured (refurbished!) by the imaginatively named Brake Caliper Refurbs. Heartily sick of the new ones not self adjusting. The refurbished calipers and new ones were about the same price when I went for new - it was a bad decision!

Gully