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June’s Courier


martin hughes
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ref June's Courier you lucky b*****s I just got May's yesterday here in Aus, usually the current months copy arrives by the 10th of that month BUT world wide postage is very slow with Covid19, so can't complain.

Just wish the club would jump to e digital copy, my other clubs have with reduced membership costs, they have password protection for members only, significantly reduces overheads!

Peter T

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pete  this old nutshell continues to ramble on , there is a huge VAT offset buy printing a magazine  which is used to reduce membership fees 

as books are zero rated  the club    saves 20% ???   of the £3.50 published price x the number of members  ....so you will get a mag whatever 

digital events unfold  or the subs go up   by  £ 8.40 pa

Pete

 

 

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Whenever anyone suggests a digital magazine, the TSSC trots out this accountancy reason, that they save money by publishing a paper Courier.    Really?  When the cost of publishing the Courier online would be ZERO?    It is written and composed digitally - if it isn't then there's a cost to remove! - and sent to the printers online.   To make it available via the website would be a few keystrokes and no cost at all.     Everyone would get theirs on time, including members abroad,  and think of the additional features that could be included!    Videos, interviews, even dare I say, commercials from sellers!  

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42 minutes ago, JohnD said:

commercials from sellers!  

Given that those have driven me off television, I don't want the same to happen with the Courier... I can't read an article without sitting through a video first... :)

But yes there should be the option - hard copy for those who want it, and a digital download for anyone who prefers.

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its not trotted out diatribe   go digi and  we all loose the offset where is the that going to come from advertisers are pulling back there    seems there is no growth in that idea .

if  you read it or not the mag does factually reduce the membership  balance sheet .

just my views 

pete

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

... factually ...

just my views

So, err, which is it? Facts or just views?

I know there is some accounting magic going on with VAT but the maths doesn't seem to add up to me. Unless the argument is that the (nominally £3.50) magazine is ALL that your membership buys you, and therefore the membership fee itself becomes entirely VAT-free, but that feels somewhat "creative" as an accounting practice. Not that I care either way, really.

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2 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Given that those have driven me off television, I don't want the same to happen with the Courier... I can't read an article without sitting through a video first... :)

But yes there should be the option - hard copy for those who want it, and a digital download for anyone who prefers.

Agree.

The thing that really p????s me off with any website is pop up adverts etc. I jut go elsewhere.

Regards

Paul

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you all need to write  to the Gen sec or Chairman to get the low down on the ins outs good bad of this    ( all emails in the Courier)   its a club thing to move on or not

notes  on the forum does not really bear  the fruits you desire  

i only relate the clues from when i was on Com the  vat  revenue gain is substantial  and worth having and the production costs of the mag is pea nuts 

there is little to save but much to gain if that helps .    I guess not 

Pete

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Pete wasn't aware of the intricacies of UK GST, and I don't expect or want reduced membership fees.

When I was editor for our local Vic club here of around 200 strong the paper monthly mag took about 30% of our budget & colour pages were around 8 times the cost of B&W pages, we weren't big enough to be liable for VAT & we kept our advertising content small so as not to raise questions re tax liability.

The club emag was just the same as getting the paper copy with the same adverts, you just read it on the screen, the mag was restricted to members only. 

It's obviously horses for courses, and I now know why TSSC haven't gone digital, I'll wait with baited breath for my June paper copy in July. Hey as an overseas member I have got a slight reduction in cost as we now we pay the same as you locals!

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On 03/06/2020 at 11:54, Pete Lewis said:

its not trotted out diatribe   go digi and  we all loose the offset where is the that going to come from advertisers are pulling back there    seems there is no growth in that idea .

if  you read it or not the mag does factually reduce the membership  balance sheet .

just my views 

pete

I've just received the June edition of "Classic & Competition Car", an excellent and wholly online magazine. 

This is published via ISSUU, a popular online system.    So let's just look at how much it costs:

If you are content with one person contributing, and an unlimited number of readers, the cos is 0.  Zero, Zilch, Nada, Nothing.

They claim that their most popular option allows 3 contributors (?editors), videos, banner ads (which can link to the advertisers own website, so much more attractive), 'customisable reading experience'(!) and sales statistics.  For $40 a month, or £32.  £382 a year.    About 4 pence per member?

And what would losing the VAT scam cost?    £3.50, on a membership fee of £45?  An 8% rise to £48.50.   Hardly bank-breaking, three litres of fuel.      But we don't need to lose it - the digital edition could appear in parallel and have additions, perhaps - videos and interviews.

I don't know what contract Simon Wright the Editor of C&CC has but you can enjoy it here:  http://classicandcompetitioncar.com/    And note, Paul, Colin and anyone else who doesn't like ads - NO ads!

John

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It’s not just the vat saving, there is advertising revenue to consider.

Our demographic is mostly pensioners, many of whom aren’t interested in on-line, they want paper in their hands.

Put the Courier on-line with no ads and all the advertisers will see is loss of exposure, thank you and good night. 

So do we feel lucky, do we want to take the chance?

Doug

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Oh, for goodness sake, why do you pick the stick by the wrong end?  C&CC has no ads, because either the Editor doesn't want any, or doesn't need any.   As it may cost him nothing to publish, then why should he?    He may be doing it for love of the sport!

The TSC needs income to run the HQ and pay staff, and no doubt gets income from ads in the Courier.     They could have ads in the Online Courier, better ads, that would link to the advertiser's own website, but could be ignored by the turn of a page, just as no doubt, those who "don't like ads" will do in the paper magazine.  So what's the difference?   

Meanwhile, come on, what do you think of C&CC? As an example of an online motoring magazine?    Colourful, interesting, enjoyable?    Look for it again?   Or ho-hum?

JOhn

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c+cc used to be car and car conversions? does that still exist?

I believe many club members of car and indeed many other clubs actually like a paper copy. Partly age and feeling comfy with it. So I have no problem. From what I remember publishing a magazine is roughly cost neutral as advertising pays for it, though that may no longer be the case. The VAT benefits are real, vat refund on £42 a year is enough to help significantly.

If a club goes 100% online it will likely slaughter membership numbers. You may as well become another facebook group. In fact, Retrorides started as a forum group, and is now a successful organisation, but traditional clubs? I think they would suffer badly. People tend not to like paying for online-only material, and many many TSSC members are inactive, but engjoy getting the magazine through the post.

Not checked but I assume that members can see an online version of the courier? I guess overseas members could be online and save a fair bit on membership fees, as it is just a small number.

I think leave it all as it is. Works well enough, and too risky to fiddle with it.

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2 hours ago, JohnD said:

 And note, Paul, Colin and anyone else who doesn't like ads - NO ads!

John

Ahem... 'picking the stick by the wrong end'... :)  I never said I don't like ads... that's where I buy all my spare parts and strange new gimmicks! I meant that I don't like on-line video ads; you know the ones where you have to sit through ten or fifteen seconds of rubbish before the video you actually want will play? I have the attention span of a 23-hr old mayfly, so don't like sitting through them, even if I did need to slim or wanted an exciting new job opportunity - you can rest assured most of them won't be relevant to Triumphs.

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Colin your in the 99%, and I hate it how they increase the volume of advertising to excessive db.

Wish I hadn't questioned the paper copy Courier, if the system permits a VAT tax refund take it, & it is obviously a substantial benefit to members.

Experience shows that in our age groups you could only expect a max 40% take up of the eCourier option which could result in increased unit printing costs, & I must admit I'm more likely to look at an advert in printed form rather than paging forward on a screen so it would affect how the advertisers react to ecopy. Also the paper copy is on the table by my chair for the month and I do eventually read all the articles including the COMMENT! & even a selection of the Area Liaison reports, I'm sure if I only had an ecopy I would only read part of the mag.

Personally I don't keep old copies of the Courier I farm them out to other Trumpteers to spread the word, I buy the archived & indexed ecopy discs offered by the club, it enables model and topic referencing in researching fix's and upgrades, without a "I know its here , which year, which month, what was the picture on the front cover, oh bugger"!

Peter T 

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On 03/06/2020 at 10:32, JohnD said:

Whenever anyone suggests a digital magazine, the TSSC trots out this accountancy reason, that they save money by publishing a paper Courier.    Really?  When the cost of publishing the Courier online would be ZERO?    It is written and composed digitally - if it isn't then there's a cost to remove! - and sent to the printers online.   To make it available via the website would be a few keystrokes and no cost at all.     Everyone would get theirs on time, including members abroad,  and think of the additional features that could be included!    Videos, interviews, even dare I say, commercials from sellers!  

Hello John

                    Sorry did you not say you have your what ever daily rag delivered in paper form? so why not online?

Roger

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15 hours ago, JohnD said:

Oh, for goodness sake, why do you pick the stick by the wrong end?  C&CC has no ads, because either the Editor doesn't want any, or doesn't need any.   As it may cost him nothing to publish, then why should he?    He may be doing it for love of the sport!

The TSC needs income to run the HQ and pay staff, and no doubt gets income from ads in the Courier.     They could have ads in the Online Courier, better ads, that would link to the advertiser's own website, but could be ignored by the turn of a page, just as no doubt, those who "don't like ads" will do in the paper magazine.  So what's the difference?   

Meanwhile, come on, what do you think of C&CC? As an example of an online motoring magazine?    Colourful, interesting, enjoyable?    Look for it again?   Or ho-hum?

JOhn

But would you pay £40 a year to receive it? That is the difference. 

(no idea how  C+CC pays its way, there will be costs involved, but the chap may indeed just do it for the love of cars.)

 

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So this excuse to continually “fine” overseas members because they must have the obligatory hard copy continues.

Absolute pish! If they are happy to receive their mag online only, let them pay the same as any other member. If a hard copy of the mag still has to be produced (to satisfy random VAT inspectors) then stick in in the recycling bin here rather than shipping across the world to go in a recycling bin there, saving a bit of carbon.

Those who actually want a hard copy can always pay.

Nick

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9 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

Wish I hadn't questioned the paper copy Courier

That stick you picked up Peter, it had a hornets' nest at the other end!

Cheers, Richard

PS: It's true - all the club magazines where I've opted for online, I rarely read them now!

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