Paul H Posted June 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Thanks for input and all advice . When I disconnected the LT on the coil noticed the HT cable on the dizzy was loose . The rubber sleeve had split ( new 2 years ago ) so need to fix that first . I’ll try the 10 sec rule several times , assuming no joy will drop the oil (again) and fit the old filter or wait for it fit the original filter casing with a new filter . For some reason I’ve got 5 of them . So my dilemma is fit an old filter (1 year old and 1200 miles ) or go back to the old system . Got to be worth a couple of pages assuming no thread drift 🚘 Thanks again for your input - appreciated Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, Paul H said: So my dilemma is fit an old filter (1 year old and 1200 miles ) No - do not do that Paul. Purchase a new filter, preferably the one before the 714/2. Regards. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Hi Paul, i always use the 714/2 and not had a problem. My car is a 2500 auto so the bottom of the filter points upwards at a 45deg angle. i don't fill the filter either, bit of a strange one. Not a micky take Paul, but you did put the oil back in/ sump plug> Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 33 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said: I'm trying to work out the fault, if it lies with the filter... so bear with me for some written-down thinking out loud... The oil goes into the filter around the outer edge, through the element and back into the engine through the threaded bit? So the anti-drain filter just moves in / up to allow oil in, but in one direction only, so it can't run back out. The fact that there's no oil pressure at all makes me blame the pump; if the filter was blocking the flow, would the oil pressure not be excessive and the gauge go right off the scale before the bypass kicked in? Another thing to try - as YS says above - fill the filter with fresh oil, then fit it. Messy, but it's full from the word go. Pressure switch/gauge take off is after the filter so won't register a blockage. Of course another way to get zero/low pressure is a stuck fully open pressure relief valve... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted June 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 10 minutes ago, poppyman said: Hi Paul, i always use the 714/2 and not had a problem. My car is a 2500 auto so the bottom of the filter points upwards at a 45deg angle. i don't fill the filter either, bit of a strange one. Not a micky take Paul, but you did put the oil back in/ sump plug> Tony. Hi Tony my 714/2 is approx 45deg and first thing I did was to check the oil , I always have trays underneath the engine section with old news paper Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Hi Paul, what i would do now if it was my car, i would take the filter off and pour oil down the filter housing then refit the filter and try again. Tony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 23 hours ago, johny said: Pressure switch/gauge take off is after the filter so won't register a blockage. Of course another way to get zero/low pressure is a stuck fully open pressure relief valve... Thanks Johnny, couldn't get the oil route clear in my head between 4 and 6 cylinder engines, so was going round in circles... just like the oil... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Paul H said: assuming no joy will drop the oil (again) and fit the old filter Interested here. what difference would draining the oil make?. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 For piece of mind change the filter for a different make and it should also eliminate it from the equation. Though as I say this is a very old chestnut with both the small 4 and the 6 cylinder engines. The problem would occur with the original oil filter set-up on the 6 cylinder engines and is the pump not priming due to an air lock. As said take the plugs out and run the engine on the starter motor, it doesn't always work but must be worth a try. Make sure you fill the oil filter with oil, this can be a slow process as you have to wait for the air to bleed out the filter. It's hart stopping when you first have this happen to you. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 have a look at the service schedule for your car my 74 2000 its clear oil drain and refill every 6k and filter changes at 12k hence my comment about most filters (like it or not) have more capacity than the oil life other models probably vary due to older ideas as oils developed Pete 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 I have the same issues with my TR6, after an oil change it is a nightmare to get oil pressure back. Don't have any issues with 5 other cars all equipped with same centre sprung filter conversion. Various different makes of filter tried, all the same. I gave up after 30 mins of spinning on starter in bursts, including squirting oil into pressure switch, having brimmed new filter. Nothing, so I tried starting it, probably shouldn't have as that didn't work either, and I think I messed up bearings. Oil pressure consistantly 10psi lower now. last three changes I have just removed pedestal, and a couple of minutes with drill and oil pressure returns. And it always comes straight back on any subsequent startup, just not the one after the filter Is changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.vitesse Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 I can remember someone running the starter motor from 24 volts to get more speed in an effort to get the pressure up. As it's likely to burn out the starter motor, don't try this at home! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 I've never experienced it on any of my Triumphs so I suppose I should be thankful. Oil and filter change, car starts as normal and oil light goes out in seconds. I use WIX on the GT6 and Uniparts on the Heralds; as the guys have posted above, it must be to do with the newer style of filter, so I'd try another trusted version for peace of mind. Maybe these newer filters need a higher pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 I think that where there are problems getting pressure after an oil change, it’s telling you something about your oil pump. It’s struggling to prime and clear the air that’s got in when the oil was drained. This might be due to slack tolerances in the pump itself, a small air leak on the suction side or a partially clogged strainer. Its possible that an oil filter with a particularly effective non-return flap (714/2 has a double flap) might make matters worse as the pump needs to generate enough pressure to push the flap open and clear the air, which it may struggle to do whilst it’s got air in itself. Basically it’s airlocked. Turning it faster (more engine revs) might clear it, but is a scary race between getting oil pressure and bearing damage. Giving the air an alternative escape path (other than through the oil filter) is another way. Leaving the oil filter loose on the threaded stub, just short of the seal making contact, then spinning the engine on the starter until oil appears would do that. I had this problem with one of the engines in my PI. It also would randomly loose all oil pressure if left idling on a slope in a particular orientation when the oil level was a bit down. That had a slack joint in the oil pick-up tube. Nick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Clark Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 Why not remove the oil pressure switch and crank the engine with plugs out to clear an (assumed) airlock from the filter? Just spin the engine until oil comes from the pressure switch hole then refit the switch and try again to see if there's pressure. The pressure switch tapping is downstream from the filter on the main oil gallery and presents an easy escape route for any trapped air. This option should also leave the filter completely full of oil, and it's probably a bit less messy that loosening the filter. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Nigel Clark said: Why not remove the oil pressure switch and crank the engine with plugs out to clear an (assumed) airlock from the filter? Because if the problem is as Nick believes - weak pump struggling to open the filter valve when air-locked - the oil pressure switch, being downstream of the filter, is not going to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Clark Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 12 minutes ago, NonMember said: Because if the problem is as Nick believes - weak pump struggling to open the filter valve when air-locked - the oil pressure switch, being downstream of the filter, is not going to help. It may be that the pump is weak and unable to prime against the filter's non-return valve. But we don't know that, it's simply a hypothesis. For the little time it takes and minimal risk of damage, I would pull out the oil pressure switch and try again before dropping the sump to access the oil pump. Just my take on the situation of course... Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 49 minutes ago, Nick Jones said: . Leaving the oil filter loose on the threaded stub, just short of the seal making contact, then spinning the engine on the starter until oil appears would do that. I had this problem with one of the engines in my PI. It also would randomly loose all oil pressure if left idling on a slope in a particular orientation when the oil level was a bit down. That had a slack joint in the oil pick-up tube. Nick I think Nick's idea above would work as well as filling the pump via the filter housing, which would fill the pump the opposite way and with the filter loose if oil does come up, tighten the filter. It could be messy but i'm sure it would work. I use Mann filters on all my Triumphs and never had a problem. Tony. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 Owners of Rover V8 engines will know this issue all too well. What they have found is that if the engine oil is drained when very hot / immediately after a run, the sudden exit of the oil sucks 99% of oil out of the pump and causes a vacuum. When the engine is refilled and turning over to get the pressure up it just does not happen as the oil pump cannot recover the oil loss for some considerably amount of time - which has in many cases ruined a perfectly good engine. As such, it's then a case of adopting the oil drain method stated below or some of the other tricks as listed in earlier threads. Owners of those V8 engines now leave their oil to cool down somewhat and drain when it is only warm rather than hot and usually overnight. This has reduced the issue of no pressure on re-starting significantly. It is a situation that is NOT common on most V8's but for the Rover unit it is certainly an issue due to the design of that particular engine. Read in to that as you wish. Regards. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve P Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 I bought 2 of those 714/2 filters to try on my 2.5 Vitesse,i have been using Fram ones for years (Ford Escort?) with excellent pressure and instant oil light out on startup. I use Valvoline VR1 oil. I get 60 psi at 2500 revs hot and about 30 psi on tickover. I`m not going to fit them now and stick with the Fram,if it ain`t broke,don`t fix it.After an oil and filter change,i always fill the filter,no issues regaining pressure. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Nigel Clark said: I would pull out the oil pressure switch and try again The oil pressure switch is on the wrong side of the filter as Rob says. It won't help, or not as much. You could also remove the relief valve or the main gallery plug just after it but just leaving the oil filter not fully sealed seems like the minimum effort to me. 1 hour ago, poppyman said: filling the pump via the filter housing, which would fill the pump the opposite way Just so, but I'd save that for the really stubborn cases! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Clark Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 Thank you for the clarification. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 23 minutes ago, Nick Jones said: The oil pressure switch is on the wrong side of the filter as Rob says. It won't help, or not as much. You could also remove the relief valve or the main gallery plug just after it but just leaving the oil filter not fully sealed seems like the minimum effort to me. Just so, but I'd save that for the really stubborn cases! Nick I think this is one of those Nick? Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Posted June 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 Hi thanks again for all input I will loosen the filter , remove the plugs and fire up until oil is visible . How long should I fire up for each time 10 secs ? And finally how many times before I have to give up Nb I still have the old filter from the Club . I could fit that loosely ? Paul another thought I could drop the oil and refill , could that be helpful in removing the possible airlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 27, 2020 Report Share Posted June 27, 2020 30 minutes ago, Steve P said: I`m not going to fit them now and stick with the Fram,if it ain`t broke,don`t fix it.After an oil and filter change,i always fill the filter,no issues regaining pressure. Ditto to that Steve, albeit the filter is fine now with instant pressure but the oil change build up pressure time is too lengthy for my liking. Glad I did not sell all my Fram units. Regards. Richard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now