No Oil Pressure Vitesse mk2

[Peter Truman]

Well done I was contemplating the filter adapter and the compact Mann filter as it enabled the filter to get nearly horizontal when I tried the adapter with th normal suspect screw on filters it had to point upwards to much so I’ve always stayed with the original system think I might follow dads rule “if it ain’t broke @@@@@“

Re oil pressure union leaking is it a nylon pipe I find the brass olives bite into the nylon and it can weep it’s never totally failed I’ve tended to go copper pipe for that reason.

Peter T

[Dick Twitchen]

1 hour ago, Nigel Clark said:

Would it be worthwhile writing an abridged version of this thread with the essential information to cure the air locking and have it as a sticky thread on the forum, to help any other poor souls who have the same problem in future?

Perhaps an article in The Courier for the large number of members who do not frequent the Forum?

Dick

[Nigel Clark]

19 minutes ago, Dick Twitchen said:

Perhaps an article in The Courier for the large number of members who do not frequent the Forum?

Dick

Good idea.

Nigel

[Paul H]

26 minutes ago, Nigel Clark said:

Good idea.

Nigel

Ok glad to write for the Courier . 

Paul

 

[Adrian Cooper]

1 hour ago, Paul H said:

For any future oil changes  I’m thinking of modifying a filter cutting a hole in the top , removing the innards so it will act as a funnel to backfill like I did for this exercise without the need to move the filter housing 

This is a great idea Paul, please include it in the write-up. 

Just thinking about what could have caused this in the first place (nothing to do with the filter, I'm sure). The oil has obviously drained out of the pump and I wonder if leaving the old filter in place until all the oil has drained from the sump might stop the outflowing oil from sucking air into the pump from the open filter mounting? Probably total nonsense but I can't think of any other reason for this situation. Anyway, next oil change I will drain the sump before changing the filter and use Pauls modified filter to apply Poppyman's backfilling solution and keep all my fingers crossed.

Love a happy ending!

Adrian

[Nigel Clark]

35 minutes ago, Paul H said:

Ok glad to write for the Courier . 

Paul

 

I'm sure that Dave, our long serving Vitesse register sec, will be pleased to publish it in the Courier.

Nigel

[johny]

At last, well done Paul! Still no explanation of why it happened this time and if it's connected to the filter so now I'm going to worry everytime I do an oil change😬

[Nick Jones]

Pleased to see there is a happy ending.  With those oil pressure figures it seems unlikely that there is much wrong with the pump and I find it quite strange that it happened.

I think the suggestion of draining and refilling the oil before tackling the filter is a good one as it prevents both ends of the system being fully open at the same time.  I'd also suggest that not leaving the oil filter off for long and going for the restart fairly soon after refitting could be a factor.  Certainly that's the way I tend to do it, though not specifically for these reasons.

I'd also point out that you don't need to change the filter at every oil change if the engine is in decent condition, especially if you are doing it on time rather than mileage.  I'd reckon at least two oil changes per filter.   They actually filter better after they've done a bit of work.

[Clive]

On 26/06/2020 at 11:46, Paul H said:

Changed the oil in my vitesse . Engine fired ok , no oil pressure . Light on and no reading on oil pressure gauge . Stopped engine after about 10 secs and looking what to do to be safe . Pressure gauge is on a T with the oily pressure switch . Normally get reading after say 5 secs with pressure reading at 70 going down to 45 to 50 when hot and cruising at 50mph ish . On  tickover when hot about 20 to 25 . 

Any advice welcomed 

Paul

Paul, how long did you drain the oil for? And was the oil hot before draining?

I ask as somebody mentioned a similar issue with another make of car to me recently, where the wisdom is to not get the oil hot first. And I know some people drain overnight.

Just thinking that maybe draining the oil cold before it circulates the engine may be best? keep oil in the pump. Or drain warm oil but briefly. The advice not to have an empty sump and the filter off at the same time seems sensible.

Lastly, I would suggest sinning the engine over without plugs fitted to get the oil pressure up. Takes 90% of the load off the crank bearings and allows the engine to spin nice and fast. Just mark the leads first!

[Pete Lewis]

same as Nick ,   i said earlier the filter change  frequency is spelt out in the handbook service schedules its a filter change for every two oil changes for most .

not liked by many but there you go make your own mind up .,  guess most change with a refill  but its probably overkill .

Pete

 

[dave.vitesse]

9 hours ago, Nigel Clark said:

I'm sure that Dave, our long serving Vitesse register sec, will be pleased to publish it in the Courier.

Nigel

Yep, no problem. Paul, just email me the info and some pictures. I always welcome articles giving member's experiences with their cars.

As said before it's an air lock problem and well known. It happens with the standard six cylinder oil filter, plus the small four cylinder engines due to the design of the engine.

Oil drains out of the oil pump pick-up pipe when the sump is drained. This creates an air lock in the pipe when the sump is re-filled. If you can get oil onto the top of the oil pump this will prime it and help suck out the air in the pick-up pipe and push it out through the system. Getting oil into the galleries should achieve this as it will drain down to the top of the pump. So air and not oil in the galleries means an un-primed pump.

Why does it happen, well the better you drain the engine the more likely an air lock will occur. On a very hot day with a hot engine the oil will drain out much easier than when cold. If you do drain when hot don't try to get very last drop of oil out. The more oil is left on/in the pump the more likely it will prime. 

Dave

 

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, dave.vitesse said:

 If you do drain when hot don't try to get very last drop of oil out. The more oil is left on/in the pump the more likely it will prime. 

Dave

 

Oil changes should if possible be a straight swap - old oil out, new oil in straightaway and start the engine asap. If you leave it long enough for the last remnants of the oil to empty the pump completely, you'll run the risk of it failing to pick up the new oil when it is restarted.

[Paul H]

3 hours ago, clive said:

Paul, how long did you drain the oil for? And was the oil hot before draining?

I ask as somebody mentioned a similar issue with another make of car to me recently, where the wisdom is to not get the oil hot first. And I know some people drain overnight.

Just thinking that maybe draining the oil cold before it circulates the engine may be best? keep oil in the pump. Or drain warm oil but briefly. The advice not to have an empty sump and the filter off at the same time seems sensible.

Lastly, I would suggest sinning the engine over without plugs fitted to get the oil pressure up. Takes 90% of the load off the crank bearings and allows the engine to spin nice and fast. Just mark the leads first!

Hi Clive , oil change was “normal” for me ie run the engine for a few mins , and  drop the oil 

Paul 

[Peter Truman]

I read all the preferred process’s and I drain then remove the filter, then as they say reverse the process, filter then oil in say a min of 15 min.

BUT what do you do if your’ve got a new engine after rebuild everything is dry and cold similar to the conditions detailed above, SO why don’t we have a problem then! we probably spin the engine by the distributor drive, then start it With no issues that I’ve ever heard.

It’s obviously an exceptional event and must be recorded for reference but with a warning of how long to try normal starting Before realising there’s an issue, like Paul did.

well thought out everyone very interesting

[johny]

Yes I put a new oil pump and bearings on my 6 in situ a couple of years back and didn't think about it so no special measures other than assembly oiling and then fire her up. Luckily oil light went out very quickly and pressure is great🤗

[NonMember]

A new pump (which should have correct, minimal clearances) should be packed with something - vaseline or similar - prior to fitting. It's effectively pre-primed by that and should get oil circulating good and quick without needing the drill-down-the-disi-shaft trick. Where you need that is if you have an engine that was last used 25 years ago and you haven't rebuilt it because it didn't need it.

[poppyman]

I don't think the drill down the dizzy shaft would have worked in Paul's case. It never has for me in the past, i have always back filled them as i mentioned. It doesn't just happen on Triumphs either.   

Tony.

[dave.vitesse]

2 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

I read all the preferred process’s and I drain then remove the filter, then as they say reverse the process, filter then oil in say a min of 15 min.

BUT what do you do if your’ve got a new engine after rebuild everything is dry and cold similar to the conditions detailed above, SO why don’t we have a problem then! we probably spin the engine by the distributor drive, then start it With no issues that I’ve ever heard.

It’s obviously an exceptional event and must be recorded for reference but with a warning of how long to try normal starting Before realising there’s an issue, like Paul did.

well thought out everyone very interesting

Even a new pump will not work without oil if there is an air block so I always pack a new pump with a mixture of oil and grease, which does work. The drill method does work as it gets the oil up into the pump, providing you pour oil on the top of the pump. Remember a dry pump will not pump air, plus it will suffer damage.

It's not an exceptional event as it is well known and part of the history of these cars. However, I do agree it does need to be bought to members attention.

As I say don't try to get every last drop of oil out otherwise you will have this problem.

As Pete said it's an air lock. Lets face it he is normally right.

Dave

[Pete Lewis]

me  normal  ???? 

happy days guys 

some senna tablets should relive trapped wind  Ha !  1 in a 4 pot  2 in 6 pot  sounds about right 

Pete