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Vitesse Convertible rear seat belts


rogerguzzi
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Hello All

               I want to fit 3 point rear seat belts in our Vitesse convertible.

I know I need to make a strengthening frame behind the rear seat and have seen details of how to do it in the past(I think!) but can not find the details now!

So does anyone have the details and dimensions so I can make on please

Roger

ps the whole inside is stripped out at the moment so a good time to do it 

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Who is being carried in the rear?. IF it is children under 12. You may run into issues around not having "Isofix" points?. There is a whole can of worms, to be unearthed in that situation?. 

I, as a Grandfather, fully appreciate the "anything being better than nothing", scenario here, but having worked in the UK`s, 1990`s then burgeoning "Elf and Safety" "INDUSTRY". There are people out there with nothing better to do than "invent" the next source of cash flow from such sources.

One example is the "Tow Bracket" industry.

Pete.

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27 minutes ago, PeteH said:

I, as a Grandfather, fully appreciate the "anything being better than nothing", scenario here, but having worked in the UK`s, 1990`s then burgeoning "Elf and Safety" "INDUSTRY". There are people out there with nothing better to do than "invent" the next source of cash flow from such sources.

If you've ever watched an 'Elf and Safety Inspector at work, it's scary, however I reckon it would be more the Insurance Company who would query in the event of any claim. 

It's been done - and documented before - on this forum; I haven't read these posts fully, Roger, but hope they help somewhat. The post by Gengis shows a frame in place behind the seat.

http://vitesse.no/Garage 2005-2006.html

 

 

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I am intrigued by the ingenuity of the construction used for the Vitesse, My concern would be that whilst It looks the business. There is the fact that as a "One off", it is "untested". And that is the area of my greatest concern. Not at all that someone is trying to protect his own, which is admirable.

It should not be the case, but we are all aware that this is now, like it or not, a "litigational" environment. And if any thing does not "conform" to some ISO XXXX. It can even be deemed illegal, leaving those who are trying to create a safe environment for their kin, in a Grey area ref Insurance, as they are only too likely to jump on such things as the "excuse" to refuse cover or even payout. It is IMV so very frustrating that we should even be discussing such things. But that is the "environment" we are now living in!. 

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A Vintage car owner fitted seatbelts  to his car and took it in to get certified.
They asked who fitted the seat belts as the car was to old to have had them new and he said he did
They asked him for the engineers paperwork but as it was his handywork he had none so they told him the car could not be certified with the seat belts,
The owner replied with ok I will remove them.
To which the certifier told him  no he  could not as that would be modifying an existing vehicle and making it unsafe.
Several thousand dollars later the owner having paid to get the car rengineered to fit seatbelts got his car certified with seatbelts.

Do your research before starting the job, you are dealing with the safety of others right at the point that it is most needed. Check the government websites for vehicle modifications and maybe ask someone who is paid to know the answer.

Adrian

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In the UK we don't have the certification issue. And come MoT time, the tester has to be satisfied the seatbelt is securely mounted (though in reality the check is more a tug on the belt, and inspection for rust around the mountings)

There are many pre 64? cars that were never fitted with belts that now have them, and the vast majority will help in an impact. Maybe not as good as modern belts, but as good as as how the belts on eg early heralds etc are mounted. 

Roger knows his stuff, he won't do anything daft, certainly not like some of the ridiculous attempts done by others, and bear in mind the circumstances eg likely to be "small people" so not 75kg+ and car driven defensively  when carrying precious cargo, he will manage a design that is appropriate. Toms is by far the best I have seen, I still like the idea of replacing the flimsy top rail around the seats with something stronger and diagonal bracing from the bottom of the B post to the top corner of the rear seat, hidden behind the side panels. Couple of braced uprights to support the rail and job done. 

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Hi.

The point I was trying to make, is that whilst "we" are more that likely very capable of design and fabrication. We are hidebound by bureaucracy often, in efforts to make sensible modification to improve safety. There have been even more moves in recent times to restrict what the competent DIY `er can do. In my experience, what actually happens is the even more "stuff" then tends to get "done" on the Q-T, and never reported!. In the end it becomes counter productive!.

Part of "Nanny State".

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On 10/08/2020 at 10:00, PeteH said:

Who is being carried in the rear?. IF it is children under 12. You may run into issues around not having "Isofix" points?. There is a whole can of worms, to be unearthed in that situation?. 

I, as a Grandfather, fully appreciate the "anything being better than nothing", scenario here, but having worked in the UK`s, 1990`s then burgeoning "Elf and Safety" "INDUSTRY". There are people out there with nothing better to do than "invent" the next source of cash flow from such sources.

One example is the "Tow Bracket" industry.

Pete.

ISO fix points are not compulsory as far as I know - and also AFAIK they are only to mount child seat to and not normal 3 point belts. I had a car (Probably have a car!) with ISOfix and never had seats to match. As ever its a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist. Basically people can't follow instructions correctly when fitting a car seat - which essentially says you put your knee on the seat so it compresses the squab as you put the belt on - so it keeps the seat firmly in place. You don't just chuck them in and put the belt around.

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ISOFIX are just the industry standard for child seats, and not intended for seat belts. I've always wondered how rear seat belts work in relation to Insurance; they were never an original fitment so does it count as a substantial modification, or do they require any kind of official inspection or certification, particularly in the event of an accident / claim?

Like many things on our cars, if they're not fitted, they're not a worry. Once fitted, they become an issue.

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29 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

ISOFIX are just the industry standard for child seats, and not intended for seat belts. I've always wondered how rear seat belts work in relation to Insurance; they were never an original fitment so does it count as a substantial modification, or do they require any kind of official inspection or certification, particularly in the event of an accident / claim?

Like many things on our cars, if they're not fitted, they're not a worry. Once fitted, they become an issue.

Yes as I said earlier. Do Nothing, you worry. Do something and you worry more!. It`s not so much the "can of worms" existing as the consequences of opening it?. As for ISOFIX, i do appreciate the fact that it is a standard. The fact the motor industry make much of it in sales blurb, is as much part of the issue.

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ISOFIX child seats are very good, and very expensive.     My modern has the fixture points, but I bought seats for my grandkids that are secured by the adult seat belts, for remarkably little at Halfords.    They come with inserts that can be removed as the child grows, and the GS's parents approve!  

They use IsoFix seats, as the seats need to be seimipermanent in their car.    Mine not so, as I need to lay down the estate back seat for big loads, so, convenience all round.

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