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New (and old?) scams, spams and phishinh?


JohnD
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Quoi???

Your first image, Chris A, is a Wyvern couchant, a sitting dragon, while your second is a heraldic leopard.     The two are distinctly different, in literature amd heraldry, even if the first has no existence in reality.    The leopard in heraldry is a lion, walking and facing outwards.

Worse, a wyvern was on the arms of the House of Wessex, that of Edward the Confessor.    Harold Godwinsson, his successor as King of England was not of that house but flew the Wyvern flag at Hastings as his standard, and was of course defeated.      Victors did not adopt their victim's emblems, and no need, as the Dukes of Normandy had long had two leopards  as their arms.

So, why the Wyvern?   Nothing to do with Brittany Ferries!

John

 

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1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Quoi???

Your first image, Chris A, is a Wyvern couchant, a sitting dragon, while your second is a heraldic leopard. 

The dragon was used by the Norman troops, later evolved into the leopards. It is also the image used on the Bayeux tapestry to denote the Normans. 

dragon.gif.35952ad2a322bbd8b40670cbe06164a8.gif

Guillaume himself had an banner that was given/approved by the pope, not sure which of the 2 he used at the battle and which later. This is what he used on his ship

1985112250_vex1.gif.91cfa244a7051a3a038a5bf203eab6c3.gif652047762_vex2.gif.55585d040162f489dd2b0c059c76b805.gif

All very murky and interlinked between the Normans & English. Then of course the flag changed again when Normandy became part of France and under the King's control.

 

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Chris, Thank you!    But where in the Bayeux Tapestrey.  This study of the flags therein includes (of course) Willaims Papal flag, but no Wyvern.   http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_Romana/britannia/anglo-saxon/flowers/gonfanon.html

But to say that a St.George's cross, even with a crucifix on it, even by the Normans, is most dubious.   While his story is from Roman times, and he was canonised in 494 AD, veneration was mostly in the Middle East, until those great traders the Genoese adopted him as their civic saint.  That was  in the 12th Century, but not mentioned in civic records until thirty years after the Conquest, and not until the 14th did the English Royals adopt him and 'his' flag.      And, I've seen modern 'AngloSaxons' take umbrage at St.George's flag being  used to represent the "English" at Hastings commemorations!     And, no way would the Saxons have used a Christian saint's flag!  They were still barely converted!

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2 hours ago, JohnD said:

Victors did not adopt their victim's emblems

Unless you count the three feathers and motto of the King of Bohemia, which according to some accounts was adopted by the Prince Of Wales following the Battle of Crecy. It's not proven 100% though, as there are other theories, but it's largely held as the reason an English heir of Norse descent has a German motto.

 

Incidentally in Game of Thrones when Yer Blonde Doll says "I have three dragons' she actually has three Wyverns...

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So. Bill was a French bastard?. And he and All his descendent Kings where just bastards. Going about murdering nice little Anglo Saxons?. Well that’s English history sorted then.

Pete

 

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1 hour ago, JohnD said:

Chris, Thank you!    But where in the Bayeux Tapestrey. 

Hidden behind the third soldier on the left.... Yes couldn't find it, memory playing tricks confused with the carvings on the prows of the ships. The banner is Guillaume's papal one not the dragon...

 

 

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2 minutes ago, PeteH said:

So. Bill was a French bastard?. And he and All his descendent Kings where just bastards. Going about murdering nice little Anglo Saxons?. Well that’s English history sorted then.

Pete

 

No, he was a Norman bastard. Normandy wasn't part of the Kingdom of France back then, bill's dad was Robert 1er de Normandie. The French had eyes on Normandy though.

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1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Descended from the northmen - Normans - as were the English (Harald) so it was really descendents of Vikings killing descendents of Vikings.

Correct, just a family dispute then

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2 hours ago, Jeffds1360 said:

I like Rollos but they are getting smaller and the toffee is not so chewy :(

 

1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

I think I'm related to Twix and chunky Kit Kats.

As Captain Mainwaring (no stripes, just pips) would say.... Stupid boys!!!!!

Colin that's addicted to not related to

Jeff - Is that Rolios, Rolos or Rolexs

 

 

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2 hours ago, SpitFire6 said:

I sent my DNA off for ancestry testing.

Valhalla awaits me. I was great,great,great, Ect son of Rollo from Vikings.

Well it did but not now with latest algorithm.

 

Then you are also descended from an equal number of non-Vikings.     Who don't seem so romantic.

I know, because my great grandfather left his Family History, that I'm descended in the male line from Welsh peasants, with female input from West Country, London and Yorkshire girls.  The last probably included Vikings in her ancestry, but so what?  About 2% of Western Europeans DNA is from Neanderthals!   But not in the Y chromosome, so we only inherit from their women.     Hmmmmmmm!  That sounds a bit Viking too!

 

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I reckon my lot came across to Ulster from Scotland in the 1800s; Lindsay's are traditionally from the Fife area and before that, Lincolnshire - a seat granted after the Norman Invasion so presumably my four bears came from Normandy too, in which case they're also of Norse descent. My mother's side were Scott and McFarland. If you go back far enough in the DNA you'll find everyone is probably related to everyone else so you can pick whichever appeals, which is why every flaming American President claims to be Irish which gives them the right to meddle.

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Meddle?  It was pressure from the US, onto BOTH sides, that got the Good Friday Agreement!

The sums are easy - two parents, four grandparents, each generation back they double, so by ten, about 300 years, you have over a thousand ancestors.  Take it back a thousand years, and you have more ancestors than there are people!    We are all one family, extraordinarily lacking in genetic variation, like the inbred wheat in a farmers field and just as vulnerable to environmental danger, as we have found in the last eighteen months.

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9 hours ago, JohnD said:

Meddle?  It was pressure from the US, onto BOTH sides, that got the Good Friday Agreement!

Only after they had a dose of terrorist bombings themselves and realised it wasn't nice- and then reduced their funding of the IRA!

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I might have lost the Rollo connection, but lost the tip of the west coast of France. So Win, Win.😆. France is a wonderful place though according to my wife who has never been/worked there.
Proud of being born in Aldershot. Would need to win the pools to move back there after 50 years.

Phishing not phishinh.

DNA.PNG

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1 hour ago, Anglefire said:

Only after they had a dose of terrorist bombings themselves and realised it wasn't nice- and then reduced their funding of the IRA!

The day after the twin Towers the IRA announced "The war is over." Smart people, they knew the funding was gone. 

 

I'm sorry SF6 but you're going to have to explain that to us "bears of little brain"

Doug

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