New GT6 MK2 Purchase - The journey of improving it further!

[avivalasvegas]

First off, a genuine thanks to so many who made me feel so welcome on these forums. I've owned a few Classics but no other community has been as welcoming. I'll do my best to pay it forward.

I was able to reach home safely, as predicted by some. The GT6 drove reasonably well and that "sound" is simply intoxicating. I love the way this car looks and can't stop ogling at it. Sadly, not everything was rosy and I came away with 3 primary questions/ concerns:

1) I'm going to need a specialist- an honest one with a reputation for extreme attention to detail/ originality. I'll need them to help me sort a few issues out. Most are minor but the two below are worrying. Any recommendations?

2) Steering wheel shudder/ lateral shaking when going over minor raised road imperfections like lane reflectors. It felt as if the tie rods had come lose or were missing. 

3) Probably the worst braking I've ever experienced in a vehicle. Hard pressing of pedal only mildly slowed the GT6 down. I would not be able to stop the car in an emergency, even with full force. Is there a best practice to address this?

I'll be sure to keep this thread updated with pictures, and updates over time. Please chime in! 

[Clive]

1. A thorough inspection of all te front suspension/steering is needed. It could need bushes, ball joints etc as you surmise. If the shocks are adjustable, i could be they are set too hard. Next, simple check. You probably need an assistant, ideally glamorous. Get them to gently wiggle the steering wheel, and look at the column joint where it attaches to the steering rack. Any play is bad, you need to contact Chris Witor and buy a UJ steering joint (do not buy elsewhere, even if cheaper, some are terrible from new, as I recently found out). And lastly Tyres. How old? Once you have had everything checked, sorted etc the car will need a proper 4 wheel alignment. Not you average tyre shop, you will need front/rear toe, front camber AND caster setting. https://www.alignmycar.co.uk/ a good start, but ask for local recommendations and advice beforehand (ie make sure rear tie bar adjusters are freed off in advance, and you have shims for the front adjustments. Plus check for figures, generally I set to dead parallel or a smidge of toe in, front camber 1-2degrees negative, caster, I can't remember but the book figure is ideal)

2. Braking. These cars do not have a servo, so do exercise the right leg a little. However, before jumping onto the "I need a servo" bandwagon, there is another root cause. The generic brake pads sold for £10 are pants. You need to spend more. Buy a set of Mintex 1144 pads, they have friction characteristics much closer to the OEM asbestos pads (which have fantastic bite, and contrary to misinformation, do not lead to a trail of death by the roadside, just simple precautions when working on them). Other likely causes is teh brake master cylinder. If it has been repaced by one with a 0.75 (3/4) bore or larger, it will make the brakes very wooden. It should be 0.70 bore.

 

Whereabouts are you based? 

[Nigel Clark]

Glad to hear you're home without mishap.

Clive's advice above is spot on, I can only echo what he has said.

My GT6 has standard brakes with Mintex 1144 pads but no servo. It stops well, even with a modified 2.5 litre engine.

Nigel

[Dick Twitchen]

Another thumbs-up for the Mintex 114 pads. 

I would also echo Clive's comment with respect to the steering knuckle.  Had the same symptom as you describe and found the, original, knuckle worn so ordered a new UJ style one.  Apart from the bolt holes not aligning it fails to tighten on the splines by the steering rack; Chris Witor replacement arrives this week!

Neither of the above jobs need a specialist.

Dick

[avivalasvegas]

Thanks for the advice! I’d really like to give the car a thorough examination as I’m not the most handy with tools just yet. I’m based in Rotherhithe, London but will travel a reasonable distance for a keen  honest eye, especially for these safety items.

I too want the very best parts for the car!

[NonMember]

If you're in north London, Moordale Motors really know their Triumphs. The "Dale" of Moordale is the editor of the Club Triumph magazine.

[NonMember]

2 hours ago, clive said:

https://www.alignmycar.co.uk/ a good start

Interesting use of the word "good" there. I tried their "find my nearest" for Ely, Cambs (60 miles from London) and the nearest it could find was in Cheshire!

[Colin Lindsay]

6 hours ago, avivalasvegas said:

1) I'm going to need a specialist- an honest one with a reputation for extreme attention to detail/ originality. I'll need them to help me sort a few issues out. Most are minor but the two below are worrying. Any recommendations?

2) Steering wheel shudder/ lateral shaking when going over minor raised road imperfections like lane reflectors. It felt as if the tie rods had come lose or were missing. 

3) Probably the worst braking I've ever experienced in a vehicle. Hard pressing of pedal only mildly slowed the GT6 down. I would not be able to stop the car in an emergency, even with full force. Is there a best practice to address this?

Glad to see you made it back safely - now you can really start to enjoy the GT6.

Firstly what details / originality do you need? Let us know and we'll help source parts or advise.

Secondly don't forget the suspension and steering are non-power-assisted so more direct than a modern, and your car does appear slightly lowered which may affect the original ride; but, as the guys have said, check bushes and balljoints. You may find, as you get used to the car, that it's actually not that bad.

Thirdly: brakes - avoid the cheapie pads, definitely avoid EBC Greenstuff, I've never tried Mintex but the GT6 brakes do need to be properly set up and adjusted to the optimum. You should have got a Northern Ireland MOT printout with the car which will tell you the percentage braking when it was tested. If they are really poor it can be anything from pads not bedded in, shoes badly adjusted (this really transformed my own Mk1 once I got them from 'adequate' to 'good'), possibly even the wrong bore of master cylinder or wrong size of rear wheel cylinders. You do have to get to used to giving a good solid push to the pedal, but it shouldn't be teeth-gritting pull-the-steering-wheel-off sort of effort.

 

[avivalasvegas]

37 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

brakes - avoid the cheapie pads, definitely avoid EBC Greenstuff, I've never tried Mintex but the GT6 brakes do need to be properly set up and adjusted to the optimum. You should have got a Northern Ireland MOT printout with the car which will tell you the percentage braking when it was tested. If they are really poor it can be anything from pads not bedded in, shoes badly adjusted (this really transformed my own Mk1 once I got them from 'adequate' to 'good'), possibly even the wrong bore of master cylinder or wrong size of rear wheel cylinders. You do have to get to used to giving a good solid push to the pedal, but it shouldn't be teeth-gritting pull-the-steering-wheel-off sort of effort.

 

At this stage, it's more like no matter how hard I push down, the car will not stop in an emergency setting. It will slow but not stop. I'm not Schwarzenegger, but I've never faced that issue before with other Classics.

I enjoy how raw the car is compared to others I've driven - I just want to make sure someone with experience and a keen pairs of eyes examines the car in depth first, as I continue to familiarize myself with it. Are Moordale motors well reputed? 

Outside of the 2 main issues above, I have a few dash lights that won't come on (including the Hazard lights during breakdown!), a speedometer gauge that thinks it is in a discotheque, and oil that is on the rocker cover and by the rear of the motor, just under the cover gasket.  

I have no idea how old the tyres are but if can't determine that they're < 7 years old, I'll replace them and then get the car tracked. Is there a go-to tyre for these cars? (Example a 195/ 70 R14 Michelin for a Classic Mercedes)

[Clive]

1 hour ago, NonMember said:

Interesting use of the word "good" there. I tried their "find my nearest" for Ely, Cambs (60 miles from London) and the nearest it could find was in Cheshire!

just tried it. I put my postcode in, comes up with loads nearby. Put Brighton in the search, same as you, one in cheshire. Obviously a glitch.

Sorry the site I suggested failed on that. I am just a happy customer, the Hunter machines are brilliant.

[Clive]

10 minutes ago, avivalasvegas said:

At this stage, it's more like no matter how hard I push down, the car will not stop in an emergency setting. It will slow but not stop. I'm not Schwarzenegger, but I've never faced that issue before with other Classics.

I enjoy how raw the car is compared to others I've driven - I just want to make sure someone with experience and a keen pairs of eyes examines the car in depth first, as I continue to familiarize myself with it. Are Moordale motors well reputed? 

Re Moordale. To quote somebody who knows an awful lot of Triumph owners, he said he had NEVER heard a bad word about Moordales. Not cheap, but enviable reputation.

[Steve P]

I can echo Clives  and Nigels comments,my 2.5 Vitesse has standard brakes with Mintex pads and will stop well and even lock up with enough leg,as i found out when overtaking cyclist on a Yorkshire tour a couple of years ago,then seeing a motor bike coming towards me.

I do my own mechanicals on my cars,i am working at Surrey Quays on Monday and Tuesday if you would like me to have a look over it before you start throwing money at it,PM me.

Steve

[Pete Lewis]

or also a trip to sunny Luton when its not raining or bugged down 

Pete

[avivalasvegas]

1 minute ago, Steve P said:

I can echo Clives  and Nigels comments,my 2.5 Vitesse has standard brakes with Mintex pads and will stop well and even lock up with enough leg,as i found out when overtaking cyclist on a Yorkshire tour a couple of years ago,then seeing a motor bike coming towards me.

I do my own mechanicals on my cars,i am working at Surrey Quays on Monday and Tuesday if you would like me to have a look over it before you start throwing money at it,PM me.

Steve

PM Sent!

[Pete Lewis]

another thought on the steering rattle if its had ally rack mounts fitted the small plastic rack damper on the passenger side will have fallen out 

its a small plastic plug which firms up road rattle   

pete

[Peter Truman]

Or even if someone has replaced the rack bush’s with poly bush’s the very little plastic damper may have gotten misplaced mine did!

[Pete Lewis]

reading that you ran out of fuel ,was the gauge still showing a reading ??? or just down to lack of visual awareness ?  ( plonker mode )  Ha 

as both temp and fuel gauges  are run via voltage stabiliser that fixes the gauge voltage to around 10.5 volts if thats failing you get high readings on temp gauges and  higher fuel levels than actual , 

so it its stuffed you run out with 1/4 tank showing 

Pete

[dougbgt6]

Another vote for Mintex! They are not just better they are very, very good. I don’t know anybody whose changed to them that isn’t astonished by the improvement.

The last of the mk3s DID have a servo and a 7/8” master cylinder bore, it all works very well and I’m not sure what Clive means by “wooden” 😊 I would just make sure you have the right parts for your model.

Tyres should have a date of manufacture on them, in some form. My brother made a tyre place replace his new tyres because they were actually 2 years old.

You didn’t say why you ran out of fuel, gauge not working or misreading? Misreading is a common problem with a dodgy voltage stabiliser. 

Damn you Lewis! In before me AGAIN!

Doug

[avivalasvegas]

I had just under a quarter tank left and didn't expect it to run out. I was 5 miles away from Warwick Services on the M40. Still, I should have known better!

[Pete Lewis]

so add a voltage stabiliser to your list 

its on the back of the speedo 

they are polarity conscious so must match the battery earth of the car  as  there are pos and neg versions 

get some sticky plasters if working on the back of the dash   Ha!

[Clive]

10 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

 

The last of the mk3s DID have a servo and a 7/8” master cylinder bore, it all works very well and I’m not sure what Clive means by “wooden” 😊 I would just make sure you have the right parts for your model.

 

Doug

Wooden as in no feel. If a servo is fitted, then it can feel fine, but a too-large bore master with no servo is, well, wooden. I know what I mean... 

Just try coating down a hill in your GT6 with the engine off, after a few presses all will be revealed. Or try a modern car, really scary.

[Pete Lewis]

Ive got a lot of bits gone wooden these past few years  

yes the spec should give 5 applications before the vac is exhausted then its lots of wood or bend the steering wheel 

Pete

[dougbgt6]

3 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

I’ve got a lot of bits gone wooden these past few years  

And I’ve got bits that won’t 😱

Doug

[avivalasvegas]

Speaking of fuel, I did the 230 mile trip on what appears to be around 30 liters of petrol. I'll know more precisely in the weeks ahead as I measure everything but that translates to close to 35 Imperial mpg. Surely, that can't be right?

The car does have factory overdrive (I'll need to research how/ when to correctly engage it)

 

 

[Nigel Clark]

Driven gently on a long journey with plenty of time spent cruising in overdrive, a well set up GT6 should be returning mid-30s mpg. So your fuel consumption estimate sounds about right.

A couple of other thoughts about the steering rattles and shakes... Check that the steering column clamps under the dash are properly tightened and that the column bushes aren't worn (quite a common problem that shows as side to side play in the steering wheel).

Nigel