Charging for road use.

[68vitesse]

I see there is a proposal to charge for road use because of the drop in petrol tax revenue due to the switch to electric vehicles. Will this mean as a petrol car driver and paying the tax I will be exempt, or if I believe that I'm in cloud cuckoo land.

Regards

Paul

[Colin Lindsay]

28 minutes ago, 68vitesse said:

I see there is a proposal to charge for road use because of the drop in petrol tax revenue due to the switch to electric vehicles.

Probably due more to Lockdown than any huge increase in the percentage of electrics; at present only rich people or those on Motability can afford them.

Lockdown is going to have to be paid for one way or the other; it'll be the tax payers and the savers who'll be hit, and the motorists are a very easy target.

 

[ludwig113]

i think electric vehicles are zero tax at the moment.... watch that change......

[Steve P]

They are trying to raise 40 billion projected to be lost by the use of E cars.

In the same week as announcing banning production of petrol and diesel cars by 2030.

You really couldn`t make it up with this shower.

S

[RogerH]

Any and all Gov'ts would do the same.  This shower are battling very extraordinary issues.

If it wasn't for the C19 furlough etc then I'm sure they would have delayed any Electric car tax.

I wonder what a communist Gov't would do.

I am not defending this shower but pone needs to be rational.

 

Roger

 

[Colin Lindsay]

Some political parties would have sold off parts of the UK to raise cash... don't get any ideas, Northern Ireland wouldn't raise enough 

Wonder if we'll keep our historic tax exemption?

 

[Pete Lewis]

i notice on my 2000 that in june it didnt need a MOT but the 6 month covid   extension now shows as MOT expires november 20th 

does seem another cock up is lurking 

please send cake with a file inside   if i get locked up

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

please send cake with a file inside   if i get locked up

Pete

Will you have access to a computer to open it with?

[Anglefire]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

i notice on my 2000 that in june it didnt need a MOT but the 6 month covid   extension now shows as MOT expires november 20th 

does seem another cock up is lurking 

please send cake with a file inside   if i get locked up

Pete

That isn't the governments fault - that's the welsh who run the system and would have just been a tick box that didn't follow the MOT exemption. For what its worth my Spitfire was last MOT's at the end of May, 2017 and I didn't get the extension.

[Anglefire]

3 hours ago, ludwig113 said:

i think electric vehicles are zero tax at the moment.... watch that change......

Only pure electric are exempt now - and has been since 2017. Before that hybrids or vehicles producing upto 100g/km were exempt (And still are)

In my view quite right too electric cars still wear out the roads (Yes I know the tax doesn't all get spent on roads - oh how good they would be if that was the case). It was always going to have to change as the technology improved and tax take dropped off.

[poppyman]

24 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Will you have access to a computer to open it with?

He will just open Windows as you suggested  

Tony.

[clive]

It isn't just RFL the govt won't be getting, but the fuel tax as well (think it comes to about 80p or so? they charge VAT on the tax....) which is where the 40 Billion comes from. But that is a huge amount of money, and it needs to be made up somehow. Maybe a French type toll system would come into play, and congestion charges for cities, and and and and so on. But slapping a box in all cars and charging based on GPS info will be simple enough. 

I think the timescale for change to electric is very rapid. Our electric supply is pretty marginal as it is at peak times. Besides, the current crop of "leaders" will be long gone and so promises will be "flexible"

[68vitesse]

10 minutes ago, clive said:

Besides, the current crop of "leaders" will be long gone and so promises will be "flexible"

So just another campaign promise.

Regards

Paul

[Chris A]

4 minutes ago, clive said:

Maybe a French type toll system would come into play

The toll money goes into the pockets of the companies who built and now run the motorways concerned. They are privatised roads. It has come up several times that the state should not renew their franchises and get the money, but then the state would have to pay the maintenance costs.

When we go the Spain we use their motorways and pay the tolls because they have far less lorry traffic on them than the ordinary roads. The Spanish transport industry hates paying the tolls. However this year they have made a lot of them free. We didn't get to check out the changes due to a well-known virus!

I too wonder where the govt. Is going to get the money from here too, they are spending like there is no tomorrow to keep businesses afloat. They have said that taxes won't be increased. Yes I do believe them, would a politician lie? 🙊

[thescrapman]

I think it I should fit to say that there is insufficient infrastructure to allow even a small percentage of the population to charge an EV at the moment. Let alone get that power into the grid.

That needs to be paid for, and the cost is eye watering, and coming to an electricity bill near you very soon.

ED2 is coming in 2022, when all the distribution companies have to submit their tenders for the following 10 years.

That will decide how much is added to your bill to pay for it.

WPD has already been put up for sale by its share holders as it believes it will no longer be able to produce a return.

[Anglefire]

Looking at the data from Gridwatch (http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/) 46Gw is a reasonable peak for the recent past (12-14months) though looks to be 52Gw in the last 10years or so. But obviously capacity has been reduced following the closure of the coal powerstations.

Current overnight demand is around 20Gw - so in theory (And its a big theory because I think we export to other countries at some times like we import at others) there is some 12-15Gw to charge stuff at night..........

[Peter Truman]

I think all countries are grappling with the power issue, here in Aus on Electricity we used to get a 40% reduction on the consumption cost if we paid on time, yes 40%, the Federal Gov't negotiated a reduction in power costs to all, so the discounts went (outlawed), yes the unit power costs per Kwh were reduced but the service charge went up, so now the net effect is our monthly electricity cost has gone up $10/month or around 10%, who won this round, not me!! 

I've read supposed true stories in the more affluent suburbs here, in dead ended street courts where there is a high rate of ownership of electric vehicles the very local power retic infrastructure can't support the power drain with the consumers trying to charge their EV's overnight!! Blackouts, makes you Laugh

 

[thescrapman]

Have a watch of this, quite interesting

 

 

[Iain T]

16 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Wonder if we'll keep our historic tax exemption?

Colin, what exemption? 

Iain 

Sorry haven't had my mid morning coffee, historic car tax exemptions! 

[Peter Truman]

Interesting and yes it is the future but a lot still has to come together and there’s always compromises hope the classic car industry isn’t one of those!

The environmental impact of the few remaining ice classics is negligible don’t cows have a neither impact. 
The tyranny of distance esp in Aus may require a different mix of solutions

[Iain T]

Eat less meat=less methane gas emitted from livestock and we can save the planet and run our cars! 

I'm not a veggie but over the years I have cut down on my meat intake. 

Then of course there's the vastly over populated planet. A bit more difficult to solve unless a nastier virus mutates..... 

Hydrogen cars are the way to go! 

Iain 

[Anglefire]

22 minutes ago, Iain T said:

Then of course there's the vastly over populated planet. A bit more difficult to solve unless a nastier virus mutates..... 

Could just let the current one run through the worlds population. 

[Iain T]

7 minutes ago, Anglefire said:

Could just let the current one run through the worlds population. 

It needs to be much nastier to reduce by around 2 billion.

Sensitive subject over population and how to address it but one which politicians and the general population seem to be ignoring.

Iain

[Colin Lindsay]

Interesting article this morning on cobalt mining for car batteries; apparently the environmental impact of making an electric car far outweighs the same figure for petrol / diesel cars and whilst the eventual running emissions are zero it takes a very long time to offset. Most of the cobalt comes from The Congo (DRC) and is mined under atrocious conditions including using child miners etc. (Or is that minors?) They also cannot keep up with demand, nor are there sufficient stocks even of unmined material at present.

Britain for one instance is not prepared for electric cars, neither the charging infrastructure nor the vehicle technology - limited range being one thing, slow recharge rates and the difficulties of stringing charging cables everywhere, which local councils are arguing are the responsibility of the owner of the vehicle being charged, so if someone trips over them or is injured, watch your insurance. 

Speculators are already turning towards hydrogen technology as the ultimate way forward and electric will probably be viewed as a costly dead end in years to come.

We should be encouraged to keep our cars and maintain them - as we do - rather than throw them away every two or three years for the latest model, just because it has better bluetooth or a different shape of headlamp.

[Chris A]

Well said Colin, yet again. 

I tend to keep my 'modern' for 10 years, I don't do massive distances so no need to change it really.