A new start.......er?

[SixasStandard]

Hello All,

Yes that's right.......I am still alive!!   I've not posted for a while, mainly due to being stuck in the attic for weeks installing flooring and creating a storage area for my various classic car parts. I finally got so fed up with the continual lack of storage at my gaff, that I went 'nuclear' in the loft. I now have so much storage that I could probably manage another classic, although that would probably prompt my permanent relocation up there if you get my drift.

Anyway........flushed with the adrenaline rush of a decluttered garage I decided to move the Alpine in there in preparation for the inevitable 'weldathon' over the Winter, which meant temporarily moving the Vitesse. My plans came to a pretty abrupt end when I turned the key in the old girl only to be serenaded by a high pitched 'whirring' noise from the starter motor. After trying the 'Boys Own Book of Car Repair' option of tapping it with a hammer to free up the Bendix drive I got a similar result. Time to get the spanners and a fresh box of plasters out of the cupboard. What an absolute joy it is to spend an hour doing a job that should take ten minutes (tops) on most classics. Those nuts are a complete bugger to get to at the back. Long story short I now have the original starter off, but rather than stripping it down I'm thinking of just replacing it with either a remanufactured unit or a high torque jobby. I can pick up a remanufactured one for about 80 quid, whilst a high torque 'Wasp' unit from TRGB is 215 quid. Any thoughts on the best option?

Regards,

Ian    

[Paul H]

2 minutes ago, SixasStandard said:

Hello All,

Yes that's right.......I am still alive!!   I've not posted for a while, mainly due to being stuck in the attic for weeks installing flooring and creating a storage area for my various classic car parts. I finally got so fed up with the continual lack of storage at my gaff, that I went 'nuclear' in the loft. I now have so much storage that I could probably manage another classic, although that would probably prompt my permanent relocation up there if you get my drift.

Anyway........flushed with the adrenaline rush of a decluttered garage I decided to move the Alpine in there in preparation for the inevitable 'weldathon' over the Winter, which meant temporarily moving the Vitesse. My plans came to a pretty abrupt end when I turned the key in the old girl only to be serenaded by a high pitched 'whirring' noise from the starter motor. After trying the 'Boys Own Book of Car Repair' option of tapping it with a hammer to free up the Bendix drive I got a similar result. Time to get the spanners and a fresh box of plasters out of the cupboard. What an absolute joy it is to spend an hour doing a job that should take ten minutes (tops) on most classics. Those nuts are a complete bugger to get to at the back. Long story short I now have the original starter off, but rather than stripping it down I'm thinking of just replacing it with either a remanufactured unit or a high torque jobby. I can pick up a remanufactured one for about 80 quid, whilst a high torque 'Wasp' unit from TRGB is 215 quid. Any thoughts on the best option?

Regards,

Ian    

Hi Torque is the way forward , upgraded to a Powerlite on my Vitesse mk2 , price was about £170 from the Club Shop 

One of the best upgrades I’ve done 

Paul 

[SixasStandard]

13 minutes ago, Paul H said:

Hi Torque is the way forward , upgraded to a Powerlite on my Vitesse mk2 , price was about £170 from the Club Shop 

One of the best upgrades I’ve done 

Paul 

Thanks Paul,

Do you happen to know what Powerlite model number it was?

Ian

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, SixasStandard said:

Yes that's right.......I am still alive!!   I've not posted for a while, mainly due to being stuck in the attic for weeks installing flooring and creating a storage area for my various classic car parts.

You are too modest Ian.............................. show everyone the lovely seats you have been revamping, no need to be shy 😉 !!!

[Paul H]

53 minutes ago, SixasStandard said:

Thanks Paul,

Do you happen to know what Powerlite model number it was?

Ian

I believe it was a Powerlite  RAC101

http://www.powerlite-ref.co.uk/products/stater-motors/

Paul 

[Pete Lewis]

club shop members price  for Vitesse  HITORQ101  £190

Pete

 

[SixasStandard]

4 hours ago, classiclife said:

You are too modest Ian.............................. show everyone the lovely seats you have been revamping, no need to be shy 😉 !!!

Hello Richard,

Sorry it took some time to reply........I've been in the shed stripping down the Vitesse starter motor (it's not pretty!!). To be honest I'm never sure whether to say too much about the Alpine........I don't want the local TSSC chapter leaving any burning crosses on my lawn!!

BUT.......seeing as you brought the subject up.........feast your eyes on these beauties!!

All the best,

Ian 'Dorian Gray' Marchant

 

[SixasStandard]

4 hours ago, Paul H said:

I believe it was a Powerlite  RAC101

http://www.powerlite-ref.co.uk/products/stater-motors/

Paul 

Thanks Paul.  Before I do anything further I've zipped off an e-mail to the US company that I bought my high torque starter for the Alpine from ( I was living in Canada at the time). The Alpine is sufficiently far off from seeing the road for me to justify using that HT starter for the Vitesse. It looks very similar to the Powerlite, has the same 9 tooth pinion gear, and the same mounting dimensions. It could be the quickest and most convenient solution.

Regards,

Ian 

[SixasStandard]

4 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

club shop members price  for Vitesse  HITORQ101  £190

Pete

 

Thanks Pete.

[ahebron]

Isuzu trooper 2.6 litre petrol starter motor will bolt in but you do need to decrease the thickness of the Triumph starter motor packer ring.

Still available brand new, I fitted a Bosch from Australia.

Motor spins like it has lost compression!

All the info is found on the site below

https://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/73gt6br_tropperstarter.htm

 

Adrian

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SixasStandard said:

I don't want the local TSSC chapter leaving any burning crosses on my lawn!!

I'm sure you will be fine Ian, you live in Lincolnshire not Louisiana !! 

Great job with the seats plus cubby box - in fact there have been a couple of threads recently (during your absence) concerning upholstery questions.

As for the Hi-Torque starter................ well ironically, Dorian Gray sums it up nicely for you: “The only way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it.”

Regards.

Richard.

[Bordfunker]

1 hour ago, classiclife said:

I'm sure you will be fine Ian, you live in Lincolnshire not Louisiana !! 

My sister in law lives in Lincolnshire, I’m not so sure you will be!

Karl

[SixasStandard]

1 minute ago, Bordfunker said:

My sister in law lives in Lincolnshire, I’m not so sure you will be!

Karl

I rest my case! 

[SixasStandard]

2 hours ago, ahebron said:

Isuzu trooper 2.6 litre petrol starter motor will bolt in but you do need to decrease the thickness of the Triumph starter motor packer ring.

Still available brand new, I fitted a Bosch from Australia.

Motor spins like it has lost compression!

All the info is found on the site below

https://www.teglerizer.com/triumphstuff/73gt6br_tropperstarter.htm

 

Adrian

Thanks Adrian.

[SixasStandard]

1 hour ago, classiclife said:

As for the Hi-Torque starter................ well ironically, Dorian Gray sums it up nicely for you: “The only way to get rid of temptation is to yield to it.”

Regards.

Richard.

You know me Richard, I'm all for yielding to temptation!........especially when it involves a 5 roller bearing supported armature.

[Peter Truman]

Adrian what is the Bosch Part No. please, the the Isuzu Trooper was produced over a long period and had different models & engines, also as a Holden Jackeroo clone, there are 2.6lt equals but I'd like to be sure.

Regards, Peter 

[ahebron]

Hi Peter

Bosch F 042 000 135

Mine came from Ebay AU Auto8 store and the list below is for Australia and NZ. UK had Isuzu so just check the engine numbers, it might also have been used in GM other vehicles.

Bosch Starter Motor for Holden Rodeo and Jackeroo 2.6 petrol (4ZE1)

Holden	Jackaroo	UBS16	2.3L 4cyl Petrol - 4ZD1	09/85 - 06/88
Holden	Jackaroo	UBS17	2.6L 4cyl Petrol - 4ZE1	07/88 - 04/92
Holden	Rodeo	KB	2.3L 4cyl Petrol - 4ZD1	07/85 - 06/88
Holden	Rodeo	TF	2.3L 4cyl Petrol - 4ZD1	01/91 - 12/92
Holden	Rodeo	TF	2.6L 4cyl Petrol - 4ZE1	07/88 - 12/98
Holden	Shuttle	WFR	1.8L 4cyl Petrol - 4ZB1	01/82 - 08/86
Holden	Shuttle	WFR	2.0L 4cyl Petrol - 4ZC1	09/86 - 12/91

Specifications
Volts	12
Kilowatts (kw)	1.2
Overall Length (mm)	195
Mounting Hole (mm)	11
Mount Hole Centres (mm)	128
Flange Diameter (mm)	89
Nose Cone Length (mm)	31
Pinion At Rest (mm)	22
Field Housing Diameter (mm)	65
Teeth	9TH
Rotation	CW
Pinion Diameter (mm)	29

 

Also have a look at the various specs in this wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Isuzu_engines

Hope this all helps but as usual no guarantees, do your own research please.

Adrian

[SixasStandard]

18 hours ago, Paul H said:

I believe it was a Powerlite  RAC101

http://www.powerlite-ref.co.uk/products/stater-motors/

Paul 

Hello again Paul,

I forgot to ask you, was it necessary to retain the spacer when you replaced the OE starter with the Powerlite?

Thanks,

Ian

[Paul H]

54 minutes ago, SixasStandard said:

Hello again Paul,

I forgot to ask you, was it necessary to retain the spacer when you replaced the OE starter with the Powerlite?

Thanks,

Ian

Yes kept the spacer though did have an additional shim with the old Bendix which I removed 

Paul 

[SixasStandard]

1 hour ago, Paul H said:

Yes kept the spacer though did have an additional shim with the old Bendix which I removed 

Paul 

Thanks Paul. I have a tubular sports exhaust on my car, so I'm anticipating the requirement to fabricate some form of heat shield between the starter and the exhaust, does your car have a similar set up? and if so did you do any heat shielding? This question is also pitched at the other owners who've installed a HT starter, as any experiences or advice would be welcome.

As an aside, and referring to another recently posted Forum thread regarding High Torque starters, my example was purchased from the US based www.britishstarters.com whilst I was living in Canada, so I'll be able to report back on their product performance shortly (all being well!!).   

Regards,

Ian

[Paul H]

1 minute ago, SixasStandard said:

Thanks Paul. I have a tubular sports exhaust on my car, so I'm anticipating the requirement to fabricate some form of heat shield between the starter and the exhaust, does your car have a similar set up? and if so did you do any heat shielding? This question is also pitched at the other owners who've installed a HT starter, as any experiences or advice would be welcome.

As an aside, and referring to another recently posted Forum thread regarding High Torque starters, my example was purchased from the US based www.britishstarters.com whilst I was living in Canada, so I'll be able to report back on their product performance shortly (all being well!!).   

Regards,

Ian

Can’t help with exhaust as mine is standard 

Paul 

[Pete Lewis]

on the Vit6 with 631  i made a heat shield from some composite material ex somewhere else , cut to shape and attached with a couple of Z Meccano style 

brackets on the  two body through bolts to protect the end from heat off the tubes   sorry no pictures 

Pete

[SixasStandard]

Hello Chaps,

Thanks for the details on heat shielding Pete, I'll look into what is possible on my car once I have the starter up and running.

I've finally got the HT starter in position and secured on the bolts. This starter has a separate mounting ring with multiple holes for the securing bolts, so you are able to rotate the main body of the unit until you achieve the best clearances before locking the mounting ring in place with two Allen socket head bolts. Luckily I got the best position at the second attempt. It's good that I've done this job, as I discovered that the insulation on the power cable from the solenoid switch to the old starter had been cooked by the heat from the exhaust and had cracked, exposing the copper cable itself. This couldn't be seen without getting it off, so I've dodged a future bullet there. I'll be fitting a new cable as part of this project, so will now consider heat wrapping it. The exhaust will be wrapped in the future, but not just at the moment, so worth protecting the starter and cable at this stage. 

If I was doing this job again as a discretionary project rather than an emergency repair I would schedule it during the summer months with the car outside and the gearbox cover removed, working from the inside where needed. It was a real bugger getting to the nuts on the rear of the flange, and in the end I had to resort to gumming the washer and nut in each case to my nitrile glove with grease to position them blind before screwing in the bolts from the front. 

More updates to follow once I have a new power cable and can test the starter.

Ian    

[Guest]

19 hours ago, SixasStandard said:

I rest my case! 

Can see why you are looking to move elsewhere !!!

[SixasStandard]

OK, so an unfortunate development took place last night...........I received a reply from the US supplier of my Alpine HT starter (www.britishstarters.com) and unfortunately the unit I have isn't compatible with the Vitesse. It looks identical, but the pinion gear and the 'throw' are different. Bearing in mind the fact that I bought this unit from them 3 1/2 years ago, I think that a 24 hour response from them (and it was the owner of the company who e-mailed) is pretty amazing. Anyway, in the light of this new information it's now back to the spanners and the credit card (not necessarily in that order) to resolve things. I'll be ordering a Vitesse/GT6 specific HT starter today. In the meantime I've already ordered a replacement solenoid cable and some adhesive heat shield sheeting. Once I have the correct HT starter I'll mock up shielding with cardboard before fabricating from alloy sheet and covering in the adhesive material. Currently the plan is to attach the new shielding to the engine side valance.

The Alpine is just going to have to wait its turn!

Ian