GT6 - Le Mans 1960 photo(s) on Ebay

[Bfg]

GT6 - Le Mans 1960 photo(s) on Ebay < here >   from Germany.    It's too expensive for my holed pockets, but still if I had a passion for the race GT6's cars then I probably would.  

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^ which looks sorta like this when the perspective is corrected.  There is another, which I think is also a 6 ..speeding down a straight at speed on its own, but the image is too small for my old peepers to be certain it is a 6. 

Pete.

 

[Colin Lindsay]

 

Almost the same lineup, and in colour too!

Be like me - tighter than a duck's whatever - there are hundreds of photos on the Net, many are not copyright (usually watermarked) so search for Triumph Spitfire at Le Mans and browse happily away. Those wheels (magnesium?) would be worth a fortune today, or at least the modern versions as the originals would probably be beyond use due to corrosion and ageing.

Here's where some of the cars ended up, too... minus the racing wheels...

 

 

[Bfg]

So they were actually racing 1256cc Spitfires with a fastback (by Harrington perhaps ? ) at Le Mans, rather than GT6's  (no bonnet bulge / six cylinder) ?

[Bfg]

Harrington also did conversions to the Sunbeam Alpine and their Alpine Harrington Le Mans looks very much like a GT6.   Beautiful roof-line design. Did these come before the GT6 and if so - were Harrington acknowledged by Triumph for their design ?

[JohnD]

The GT6 was promoted as "Born at Le Mans" for obvious reasons, but in fact it was the other way around!

At Triumph's request, Michelotti had produced a prototype fastback Spitfire more than a year before, and Triumph were assessing it and readying it for production.   

     Michelotti's Prototype

 The Competition Department wanted a fastback roof for the Le Mans cars as that would have less drag than the conventional hard or soft top, so they went into the Design Dept and took a glass fibre mould directly from Michelotti's one-off.      From this, they made copies for the Le Mans cars!

Michelotti had, of course, designed a tail-gate for the production car, as without any boot it would have failed every test of practicality.   But the competiton cars didn't need that, so it was smoothed out of the mould and the Le Mans cars appeared with sleek external lines.

That tailgate had a further impact, as it was heavy, so heavy that the prototype with a Spitfifre engine had inferior proformance to the original Spitfire.     And that, children, is why the GT is a 6!

John

[Colin Lindsay]

57 minutes ago, Bfg said:

Harrington also did conversions to the Sunbeam Alpine and their Alpine Harrington Le Mans looks very much like a GT6.   Beautiful roof-line design. Did these come before the GT6 and if so - were Harrington acknowledged by Triumph for their design ?

Reminds me of a certain Triumph-based vehicle, too!

  

[Bfg]

Those two three posts just go to highlight what a master Michelotti was.  What a superb piece of design.  Lister I believe also did a cam tail design, which if I recall was neater that the Bond. 

edit ; can't find a Lister racing Triumph, only the Sunbeam Alpine..  seems like me ol' grey matter is going silver too. !

[Bfg]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

The Competition Department wanted a fastback roof for the Le Mans cars as that would have less drag than the conventional hard or soft top, so they went into the Design Dept and took a glassfibre mould directly from Michelotti's one-off.      From this, they made copies for the Le Mans cars!

Michelotti had, of course, designed a tail-gate for the production car, as without any boot it would have failed every test of practicality.   But the competition cars didn't need that, so it was smoothed out of the mould and the Le Mans cars appeared with sleek external lines.

That tailgate had a further impact, as it was heavy, so heavy that the prototype with a Spitfire engine had inferior performance to the original Spitfire.   

Thanks,  So the racing Le Man Spitfires had no side-window gutters.  And, for weight saving. the fastback side and rear windows were fixed (and most likely perspex or similar) with no opening (hinges, gutters, seals, etc).  The doors were gutted of winder mechanisms and their glass replaced with fixed aluminium frames with lightweight plastic windows.  From the colour photo it looks as if the hardtop / fastback was also fixed and faired-in to the windscreens header rail - so it was not lift off, nor was there any other external access to the behind-the-seats interior of the car - That being unnecessary because these cars were not used for rallying ..and so carrying a spare was unnecessary.  All that was within the fastback space would have been the roll cage and the fuel tank.

Cheers.

[JohnD]

The GT6 Mk3 had a Kamm-style tail end (after the wonnderfully named her Doktor Professor Wunibald Kamm, who realised the drag and stabilty advantages of it.      And is the b&st%rd whose work means that all modern cars look alike!

that was intended to reflect the Stag rear,

for a marque 'family look', like BMWs

The Stag's front end was very similar to the back, IMHO an unfortunate Pushmepullyou effect.

[Works Spitfires]

On 06/12/2020 at 10:20, Colin Lindsay said:

  Those wheels (magnesium?) would be worth a fortune today, or at least the modern versions as the originals would probably be beyond use due to corrosion and ageing.

 

 

 

 

We (Bill Bradley and myself) regularly have these original magnesium wheels professionally inspected (X ray), and to date only two have failed, but still deemed safe as spares.

Not bad from five sets (4 x 4 1/2" sets, and one set of 5 1/2").

 

 

[Works Spitfires]

On 06/12/2020 at 10:53, Bfg said:

So they were actually racing 1256cc Spitfires with a fastback (by Harrington perhaps ? ) at Le Mans, rather than GT6's  (no bonnet bulge / six cylinder) ?

No the factory circuit cars were only ever 1147cc. 

However Bill Bradley did go on to race some of these ex factory cars with 1296cc engine's, and in one case a prototype 1493cc.

[Works Spitfires]

On 06/12/2020 at 15:46, Bfg said:

, nor was there any other external access to the behind-the-seats interior of the car - That being unnecessary because these cars were not used for rallying ..and so carrying a spare was unnecessary.  All that was within the fastback space would have been the roll cage and the fuel tank.

Cheers.

No there was always access to a spare wheel, and they were always carried. The circuit cars had a hinged flap in the rear valance, and the rally cars had a hinged flap in the roof below the rear windoiw.

[Colin Lindsay]

The Standard 8 also had no boot originally, with access from the rear seat area. I presume that by the time the fastbacks / GT6 were made, any kind of road-going car needed the opening rear hatch in order to appeal to the public.

[NonMember]

1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

I presume that by the time the fastbacks / GT6 were made, any kind of road-going car needed the opening rear hatch in order to appeal to the public.

Which might be why the Bond Equipe GT2+2 never caught on? The GT4S did have a boot, though.

[JohnD]

The MG Midget had no boot, and look what a failure that was!

[Colin Lindsay]

Interestingly, neither had the Frogeye Sprite - nor external doorhandles either - and they sold a lot of those! Almost 50,000 of the Mk1s. 

[Peter Truman]

Had a Mk1 Sprite great fun but the suspension was why I went to Triumphs! Ooh and getting the spare tyre and tools out WHAT a pain! Luggage was worse.

[NonMember]

3 hours ago, JohnD said:

The MG Midget had no boot,

Technically it was only the Frogeye Sprite (and possibly the very earliest Midgets?) that don't have a boot.

[Dick Twitchen]

Frogeye (Mk1) Sprite had no boot and Peter's memories the same as mine, particularly with the hood up in the rain.  Mk2 Sprite (had one of those as well) the same same as a Mk1 Midget did have a boot.  Like Peter I also then went to Triumphs and a Coupe that the O/S trunnion collapsed on and I decided to runaway to sea!

Dick