AidanT Posted December 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: was that quote for recutting the 6 inlets 6 exhaust inserts and regrinding all 12 valves ???? Pete Just the exhaust valve seats although I'm not sure of the condition of the valves not having taken then out (yet!) Aidan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 hmmm theres an offer on ebay of refurb with skim, new springs, guides and exhaust seats for 415 including transport both ways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 thats £75 a seat there having a laugh at your expense whole job should take less than an hours work for just 6 seats Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted December 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, johny said: hmmm theres an offer on ebay of refurb with skim, new springs, guides and exhaust seats for 415 including transport both ways... Thanks Jonny do you have a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 Its the same one as in Colins post - great minds think alike! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted December 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 So if I can get the head sorted at reasonable cost, then this may revert to DIY😁😁😁 What's next?? Block I guess Advice on how far I should strip down please and cleaning? Phosphoric acid bath??? Step by step please!!! Aidan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 your on a learning curve not utopia many things are a good idea but start by oily rag and look see , it may not need anything examine let us know what you uncover or find and help is not far away remove the bearing caps , photo the shells for us , then pull a piston and look at the rings , check if there is any wear step at the top of the bore keep cam followers and push rods all as matched pairs as 1 - 12 so they can go back where they came from stuff like hyperclean/jizer/ are good degreasers and wash of with hot water brake cleaner always usefull but not for a full engine get a https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-253996-Piston-Ring-Compressor/dp/B00OACRW46/ref=asc_df_B00OACRW46/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=208050023643&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=543150181127950780&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046046&hvtargid=pla-475817244207&psc=1&th=1&psc=1 Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted December 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 I can tell you what I have found so far will add pictures tomorrow. The piston bores are like a babies bum smooth with no marks. Can't be said for the top few mm though, all of them are not like the rest, quite scratchy but will add pictures Piston heads are as black as soot, and all look the same A couple of pics from below Aidan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted December 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 Can the pistons just be unbolted from the crank and pushed out? Is there anything I need to keep numbered and orientated so they go back in the exact same way??? Aidan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky_Spit Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 Hi Aidan - yes the pistons and their rods can be pushed up the bores and out of the top of the block. And yes, before you do any more dismantling you need to mark each big end cap so that they can go back on their correct rod and also the same way round. Most people gently make a centre-punch mark on the bearing caps (1 dot for number 1, 2 dots for number 2, etc) for both the big ends and main bearing caps. Make the marks so that they also show which way round they go. Take notes or some photos. This is important as it ensures that everything goes back together in the same place that they came from. Also mark the piston tops to show where they came from and which way faces front. Photograph everything so that you can refer to it later on when you are putting it back together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 Aidan downloading the workshop manual and spending an evening to read through the engine section is a good start before touching anything. Also do you know any history of this motor and why it needs a rebuild? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 6, 2020 Report Share Posted December 6, 2020 3 hours ago, AidanT said: Yes i think it would be daft not to convert to unleaded What are you getting quotes for, or, rather, having difficulty getting quotes for? Your local TSSC Area GRoup will know who to do to in your manor. I got no response from some, and another was a crazy price nearly 4k! Original plan was to do it myself but no experience so reverting to getting it done Thought I had a good starting point with a mk2 vitesse engine? Aidan Try CMES in Bracknell if you get stuck. They have done some work for me, sensible prices and pleased. I know they do a few Triumph and classic engines, and have heard good things from others about their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 You see, Aidan, there are well experienced people here who can almost hold your hand as you get into this engine! You have made a good start by taking photos,lots of them! Small parts, nuts&bolts can be stored in zip lok plastic bags, the sort with a panel on the side to write on. Not foodbags, much cheaper are on ebay. Phosphoric acid is a rust treatment. To clean out a block use degreaser, an old washing up brush (or a new one! Not costly will last longer!) and hot water. you've made good start by inspecting then it end journals. Now run a finger over that. Is there a central ridge? (The human finger too can feel 0.01 of a thou(Santa of an inch)!) If there is then it probably needs a refund - that's a machine shop job. That and a rebore. Most of the rext, you can do! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Be aware, a machine shop will want the pistons in their hands before reboring, so te clearances will be spot on. Likewise, they should really have the BE/main bearings and rods etc so they can measure the new bearings and grind the crank to suit. Building a top engine is not just a case of using book figures (as I believe the King bearings are 1 thou bigger than book? as in give 1 thou extra clearance, which is not ideal) CMES sourced my pistons, and were as cheap as anybody else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted December 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, clive said: Be aware, a machine shop will want the pistons in their hands before reboring, so te clearances will be spot on. Likewise, they should really have the BE/main bearings and rods etc so they can measure the new bearings and grind the crank to suit. Building a top engine is not just a case of using book figures (as I believe the King bearings are 1 thou bigger than book? as in give 1 thou extra clearance, which is not ideal) CMES sourced my pistons, and were as cheap as anybody else. Clive, so in other words, if it needs a re-bore then really they will need the pistons crank & bearings. That doesn't leave much behind! Guess only time will tell Aidan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Whether they need the pistons for a re-bore rather depends on the depth of the re-bore. I'd have said not - certainly Ivor Searle didn't ask for my pistons when they rebored a standard Vitesse block to +20 (because I had a good set of +20 pistons in a cracked block and a good block with no bits fitted). If they're skim-boring (just re-surfacing, really) to retain the existing pistons with oversize rings, then they probably need the pistons. Or if you're spending silly money on a race-spec blueprinted type engine, then they'll need them for the reasons Clive said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted December 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, NonMember said: Whether they need the pistons for a re-bore rather depends on the depth of the re-bore. I'd have said not - certainly Ivor Searle didn't ask for my pistons when they rebored a standard Vitesse block to +20 (because I had a good set of +20 pistons in a cracked block and a good block with no bits fitted). If they're skim-boring (just re-surfacing, really) to retain the existing pistons with oversize rings, then they probably need the pistons. Or if you're spending silly money on a race-spec blueprinted type engine, then they'll need them for the reasons Clive said. HAHA no, no way near that far! It would be nice to end up with an engine that does not loose oil, and runs as cleanly as possible for a triumph. Not looking for more power, just smooth reliability - a true GT car Aidan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Its the new pistons and bearings Clive means as, unless the machine shop supplies them, you will have to include them with the block, crank and con rods (needed so the bearings can be fitted in them for exact measurement) so that the metal taken off for their rebore and regrind leaves the correct clearances for the MEASURED sizes of the new components. I just hope all this is really necessary🤪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 44 minutes ago, NonMember said: Whether they need the pistons for a re-bore rather depends on the depth of the re-bore. I'd have said not - certainly Ivor Searle didn't ask for my pistons when they rebored a standard Vitesse block to +20 (because I had a good set of +20 pistons in a cracked block and a good block with no bits fitted). When I was pricing a rebore for the Herald engine I was quoted a price (quite hefty!) and this actually went up if the company did not supply the pistons and rings too, at quite an astronomical price. I went to another company who bored the block out to +30 and were happy that any good quality +30 piston and new rings would fit, so I was able to source the pistons and rings myself (from Paddocks) and saved about £300 overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Hi Aiden Good to see you are back to the car! I have no words of wisdom as have not done a full rebuild other than swapping the sealing bar to steel (still giggle over the fact that a couple of bits of wood are an intergral part of the sealling of the block!). I'll be keeping an eye on this thread as an engine rebuild is something I want to do at some point (for fun at the moment as mine arn't burning oil). So I hope you will keep a journal to go alongside the excellent fuse box upgrade!. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted December 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Adrian said: Hi Aiden Good to see you are back to the car! I have no words of wisdom as have not done a full rebuild other than swapping the sealing bar to steel (still giggle over the fact that a couple of bits of wood are an intergral part of the sealling of the block!). I'll be keeping an eye on this thread as an engine rebuild is something I want to do at some point (for fun at the moment as mine arn't burning oil). So I hope you will keep a journal to go alongside the excellent fuse box upgrade!. Adrian Cheers Adrian Better late than never! Back to a permanent role @ work so can look forward to a stable income - even a holiday in 2021 as long as the dreaded covid is back under control!! Aidan will also have a mk2 2000 engine spare at the end! Might repeat the exercise and sell off although apart from some oil use it's not in bad condition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Aidan can you photo the bearing shell in the cap you removed ?? you need to clean the top of the bore , there will be carbon on the unswept top few mm if theres a wear step you can get your finger nail in it needs new rings with a step top ring.. thats .if a rebore is not essential Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted December 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: you need to clean the top of the bore , there will be carbon on the unswept top few mm if theres a wear step you can get your finger nail in it needs new rings with a step top ring.. What's best to use to clean? - I'd also like to clean the top of the pistons, but again with what? I will take a pic of the inside of the bearing shell and add it on here Thanks Aidan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted December 7, 2020 Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 1 hour ago, AidanT said: What's best to use to clean? - I'd also like to clean the top of the pistons, but again with what? I used a metal pot scrubber then a plastic version on my 1200 convertible pistons, along with both petrol and carb cleaner; they looked terrible at first, very sooty but no pitting and cleaned up very well - just be gentle and avoid any deep scratches. Unlike the Estate pistons these are being reused as the bores are slightly discoloured around the tops but suitable for reuse as is. The 1200 Estate pistons were very crusty and although it mostly cleaned off it needed a rebore and so new pistons and rings. The bore itself had a definite ring round it; I was able to feel it with a fingernail and although it felt almost insubstantial it took a bore out to +30 to remove it. I had hoped to get away without a rebore but despite the wear being very very light to the touch it was still quite bad in engine terms. Hope the photos help you work out what yours needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AidanT Posted December 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2020 Nearly sorted out the head refurb, thanks Colin / Johny They did say to get a Payen gasket, now I know there's been chatter on the new ones not being good, so can anyone tell me where to go to get nos, and which one? Thought it was GEG179 but now I'm not sure OR Am I completely wrong on this? Thanks Aidan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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