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Cost New technology for us when do not own it.


Graham C
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I have just read a story that Somerset council has had to spend £70,000 to alter a cattle grid so cars with sensors can cross it. It appears these cars suddenly apply their brakes as it thought it was a wall. Some cars have left the road.

Cattle grids have been around for years but no car makers do not pay, the council does to allow their cars drive over a grid.

Graham

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So a council has spent £70000 for road to no way, for cars which can't deal with an acceptable live stock control.

So the car manufacturers get a profit for selling something not for fit purpose and the public pay for it.

On a similar matter, in Nottinghamshire we have houses built in a quarry, we have land slides of the cliff edges, guess what it is the council now who have the responsibility to monitor the Cliffs and guess who will pay for any corrective action. 

We have incorrect insulation on buildings, developers have made their profit and companies  charge for maintaining these buildings, but the public will pay for the removal of incorrect material.

Get your profit and run to the hill, don't worry some one else picks up the bill.

Graham

 

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7 hours ago, Graham C said:

So a council has spent £70000 for road to no way, for cars which can't deal with an acceptable live stock control.

So the car manufacturers get a profit for selling something not for fit purpose and the public pay for it.

On a similar matter, in Nottinghamshire we have houses built in a quarry, we have land slides of the cliff edges, guess what it is the council now who have the responsibility to monitor the Cliffs and guess who will pay for any corrective action. 

We have incorrect insulation on buildings, developers have made their profit and companies  charge for maintaining these buildings, but the public will pay for the removal of incorrect material.

Get your profit and run to the hill, don't worry some one else picks up the bill.

Graham

 

I think that is a lot of over-simplification.

The cattle grid was built in a slightly odd was from hat I read, so te road was on an incline and the grid build level. The grid sounds lie it hasn't been changed, but the approaches to it have. So, was the grid built within the roadbuilding rules? and why was it built. If the grid wasn't installed there wouldn't have been an issue. OK, I am being Devils advocate, but some of this stuff is down to poor decisions earlier on. If the cars are being designed to fit the roadbuilding rules, the roads need to be built accordingly. And if the road is a hazard, as was acknowledged, something needs to be done to prevent accidents as it is possible.

Homes built in quarries, or indeed flood plains, is a bugbear. Yes I know housebuilders put pressure on planners, but planners can refuse, at whatever level. Councils get greedy, wanting more homes=more council tax and the opportunity to get a leisure centre/school etc built. Councillors at the time get some glory, further down the line the new councillors get the headache.

The cladding thing is typical of an event upsetting the status quo. So who is to blame? If the builders/architects were doing things correctly at the time, following all the guidelines and using materials that were certified for that use, they cannot be held responsible.  I realise there are a few iffy things going on with Grenfell, sounds like the insulation manufacturer had possibly rigged some test results. But finger pointing is tricky, at most somebody will get a small % of blame, most is down to a whole series of events, non in themselves wrong, but together were disastrous.

Hence we, the public, step in as a collective and sort these issues. It is about the country working together. So the road thing cost every person in the country a few pence, the cladding thing may be £20 each and so on. But it is the easiest way to fix these problems, shared responsibility because one day it could be us. Do I resent paying may taxes? never feels great, but I was paying a tax bill yesterday. And talking to the bank chappie about things. He did the usual thing of saying how it hurts to pay a tax bill, , but I responded by saying it would pay for a load of vaccines and contribute towards the NHS. OK, it goes everywhere, including both my daughters salaries who both work damn hard doing difficult jobs in the public sector. 

So relax, we live in a relatively well-balanced country. We all pay in, and most get more out than they pay in. Which is not unreasonable. I think the break even point is about £30k/year. The majority of people earn less than 30k, but those earning more benefit from those people. (think of what would happen if all wages went up, shopworkers, office workers and all the people doing the jobs we rely on daily went to the 30k, it would be a spiral of massive inflation) 

I have "gone on" a bit, but reflect on the country we live in. Like most of Europe it is as I said pretty well balanced, caring and so on. I know there are people who fall off the bottom, and that is a concern. But compared to many countries in the world, we are doing OK. 

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2 hours ago, clive said:

If the cars are being designed to fit the roadbuilding rules,

Even if they were, that's the wrong approach. Cars need to be designed for the real world, not some hypothetical ideal that "would" exist only if the entire world began again from scratch with current rules. But the cars are not designed for that - the technology is just being thrown out there as a gimmick / sales advantage when it's nowhere near ready for use.

I don't mind the road being modified to improve safety but if the danger is caused by bad car design then it should be the car manufacturers who pay for it.

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4 hours ago, clive said:

If the grid wasn't installed there wouldn't have been an issue. OK, I am being Devils advocate, but some of this stuff is down to poor decisions earlier on. If the cars are being designed to fit the roadbuilding rules, the roads need to be built accordingly. And if the road is a hazard, as was acknowledged, something needs to be done to prevent accidents as it is possible.

But: it was, and for 99% of cars there is no issue at all. It's an imperfect technology in the car that causes the issue, not the road, or the grid. If I drove a supercar that was so low I couldn't see traffic lights, would they be expected to lower all of the traffic lights just for me?

It's a bit like calling a bend a 'dangerous' bend - the bend itself is inert, hundreds or thousands of cars may go round it every year without incident, but as cars get faster some can't make it and so we get accidents, and people start calling for this 'dangerous' bend to be straightened out, instead of telling drivers to slow down. 

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3 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

 If I drove a supercar that was so low I couldn't see traffic lights, would they be expected to lower all of the traffic lights just for me?

 

That's why I moved to France they have a low level set just for that reason 😁

I'm still saving up for my Bugatti though 🚗

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That is one thing that I do love about France - the low level lights are such a useful thing.

One thing that I have noticed with my moderns active cruise, is that it sometimes goes into fault in road works when there are concrete barriers both sides of the car and is single lane. The reflections must screw up the system. 

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6 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

We've a lot to expect from driverless cars, then. 

Not sure if you had noticed how quiet it has gone on driverless cars? I think they have hit the obvious issue. All teh easy stuff is just that, easy. But that final 5% is VERY difficult to get right. And it has only recently dawned on them. I could have told them that for the price of a pint and a packet of pork scratchings.

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1 minute ago, clive said:

Not sure if you had noticed how quiet it has gone on driverless cars? I think they have hit the obvious issue. All teh easy stuff is just that, easy. But that final 5% is VERY difficult to get right. And it has only recently dawned on them. I could have told them that for the price of a pint and a packet of pork scratchings.

Make that two pints and we'll share the pork scratchings! How I miss a good natter over a pint.

It's like jumping out of a plane; everyone can do it but it's the last few feet that are the problem.

 

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Tesla's system relies largely on knowing the roads - yes they have sensor inputs but that is for supplementary decisions. Drvierless cars are a way off yet. And the moral question has to be answered. Who do you kill when the child steps out in front of the car when the car can't stop. The child or the car coming the other way? 

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I don't share pork scratchings, i get very possessive. Especially if they are a bit hairy.

Had an odd one between lockdowns, I was in the pub garden that we also hold our local meets with a few friends. Asked for scratchings, and was told they didn't keep them over teh summer, they go soft or something. Never heard that before, but was most disappointed. Nothing quite hits the spot in the same way with a pint. Crisps were a poor substitute.

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3 minutes ago, clive said:

I don't share pork scratchings, i get very possessive. Especially if they are a bit hairy.

Had an odd one between lockdowns, I was in the pub garden that we also hold our local meets with a few friends. Asked for scratchings, and was told they didn't keep them over teh summer, they go soft or something. Never heard that before, but was most disappointed. Nothing quite hits the spot in the same way with a pint. Crisps were a poor substitute.

I like Scampi Fries, they taste very nice with lager. Crisps are a bit bland, hate peanuts, but Mr Scratchy Pork Scratchings are the perfect accompaniment. Ok I'll buy my own bag.

5 minutes ago, Anglefire said:

Drvierless cars are a way off yet. And the moral question has to be answered. Who do you kill when the child steps out in front of the car when the car can't stop. The child or the car coming the other way? 

If we assume that a driverless car is in control then anyone in it is just a passenger; by the time they've woken up, dropped their mobile phone or other electronic device to grab the wheel and take over, it's too late. Round here in the countryside our roads are covered in leaves, and, often in large sections, mud where tractors are hauling from fields. How does the sensor in a car react to anything other than a clean, clear road surface? How does it react to an overgrown grass verge? Long long way to go, yet. Now: tram lines, or a groove like a Scalextric set that the car will follow....?

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17 minutes ago, Anglefire said:

 If you can’t turn off the track then you really are just a passenger. 

Isn't that the whole issue with self-drive cars? People who want it all done for them, while they sit back in isolation and relax, play games or surf the Net. Driving is so.... common, and as for public transport... mixing with other people?

I see people on TV with hoods pulled over their faces, and headphones, and no social interaction at all, any day. I wonder what they actually want out of life.

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50 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

we need a camera that detects idiots and plans avoidance in advance   .............far more useful .

Pete

Last Thurday i was driving on adaptive cruise control on a stretch notorious for speed cameras. Nice clear road no traffic, pull out to pass a large van.... Boom some tosser pulls out from behind van, the sensors picked it up instantly. I still hit the car but possibly hot as hard. Car not drivable but at least but at least no one was hurt. Just mountains of paperwork now even though she accepted liabilty :( 

Tony.  

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23 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said:

Ouch  hope it all gets fixed soon   there again we cant go anywhere much 

unless its to test youre eyesight ( yes that still wrangles me)                 the start of indiscretions 

Pete

 

It wont be a quick job Pete, because it was in adaptive mode the impact has wrecked all the electronics. So a couple of months forecast...... I do get another car which is great as we don't have public transport. Just glad i didn't go out in a Triumph as it was a lovely day.

Tony. 

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