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Vitamin D


Anglefire
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Saw something on the government website about vitamin d and I know it’s been discussed in various places on here before. 
I will say that I’ve not read it!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vitamin-d-supplements-how-to-take-them-safely?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_source=ac5d221a-41fb-4cf4-956d-9e621749c818&utm_content=daily

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I have been taking VitD for a few months. At a much higher dosage than the govt recommends, but other govts do recommend higher doses. There is no downside.

FWIW I have felt fine this winter, no sniffles etc, no reaction to my flu jab 2 weeks ago either (usually feel a little rough for a couple of days) so hoping it has boosted my immune system🙂

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I've been taking 10,000 IU a day since just before the first lockdown and like Clive I've been feeling fine - I can highly recommend taking plenty of Vitamin D3, its cheap and as Clive says there is no downside.

It could make the difference between life and death if you are unfortunate enough to catch Covid, what have you got to loose.

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Hi Kevin,

10,000IU/d is quite high over a long period.  Consider reducing it to 5,000 or 4000IU/d.  

Although it is good for your bones a high dose can rob you of calcium.  Consider some calcium supplements.  Watch out for your kidneys.

Should you come down with C19 and you feel your windbags bunging up consider a mega dose (20,000IU or even 50,000IU) in one go followed by 5000IOU/day

You need a serum20(OH)L/L level of 75Nmol/g to be OK - higher would be better.

Something like 90% of the BAME UK community are significantly below this level and are suffering

The Gov't dose rate of 400IU/d is very good for bones and general muscle. It is TOTALLY useless to fight against C19

Usually on the Gov't blurb telling to take 400IU/d they actually state that there is no evidence that higher levels of D3 will help against C19.  This is a damned lie AND htye know it.  There has been extensive small trials over the last 10 years that have shown significant success in ALL trials - except for one trial that was inconclusive.

 

Don;t forget Vitamin D3 is not a vitamin.  It is a hormone; and hormones are very powerful.

 

Roger

 

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There was some input on here that it decreases the efficacy of some drugs. I think Statins and blood pressure medication were mentioned. So OD’ing on it was not a good idea. However, a call to the surgery should sort individual requirements.

Doug

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Everything I've read recommends a maximum of 10,000 IU daily and if used excessively you have to watch your calcium levels. I'm not a doctor but I do know a high calcium score in your heart is very bad. No idea if one can effect the other. 

Iain 

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29 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

There was some input on here that it decreases the efficacy of some drugs. I think Statins and blood pressure medication were mentioned. So OD’ing on it was not a good idea. However, a call to the surgery should sort individual requirements.

Doug

That was me Doug, i was told to stop taking it as it causing a reaction to my heart meds and reducing my oxygen levels. I was only one of a handful of people that had that reaction.

Tony.

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1 hour ago, dougbgt6 said:

However, a call to the surgery should sort individual requirements.

Doug, if only! I was told by the receptionist I had to wait 17 days for a phone consultation and no chance soon of a face to face. I went private and seen the next day and CT scan the day after.... 

Just Googled and I know not definitive but Atorvastatin (I'm on them as of yesterday) is not affected by vit D, usual caveats apply. 

Iain 

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40 minutes ago, Iain T said:

Doug, if only! I was told by the receptionist I had to wait 17 days for a phone consultation and no chance soon of a face to face. I went private and seen the next day and CT scan the day after.... 

Just Googled and I know not definitive but Atorvastatin (I'm on them as of yesterday) is not affected by vit D, usual caveats apply. 

Iain 

I'm on Atorvastatin Iain and it wasn't those, it was a drug called Entresto that caused the problem.

Tony.

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I've been taking a low dose of Vit D (1000 IU daily) for over 6 months, plus 500mg Vit C.

I haven't had any sign of even a sniffle during this time, and the only reaction to flu and pneumonia inoculations was a slightly sore arm. That said, I suspect the reason many of us are free from colds is that we're following the guidelines regarding not mixing, social distancing and face coverings.

Nigel

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NICE published a rather unhelpful article on Vitamin D last year.

It said there was no evidence that Vitamin supplements  are beneficial in Covid infections.

At first glance , this  seemed to fly in the face of several decades of research into Vitamin D  particularly its “ non skeletal “ roles-  especially its immunological  role.

What they said was strictly correct -  but in a  pedantic and extremely unhelpful way when there is a well proven need for its use.

By “ supplements”   they are talking about taking a dose that  produces a level in the body  above what is regarded as the optimum level.

This is rather different to the way many people would use the word,  who would use “supplement “ as anything taken ( no matter what dose) in addition to their normal diet.-i.e. a dietary supplement.Very different.

NICE’s response obscures  the fact that  we can only take in about  30 % of the vitamin D we need from food.The  rest we make ourselves by the action  of UVB light our skin.

The problem is  any  population that lives above the 35 degree latitude will not get sufficient UVB  to make sufficient  Vit D for 4-5 months of the year, and this can be further aggravated by other  factors such as skin colour, clothing cultures  and being housebound.

This results in a population  in which a high proportion is running on  sub optimal levels,  many have low levels. and a significant number have  very low levels of active Vit D.

There is abundant evidence that low levels are associated with increased vulnerability to  respiratory infections both viral and bacterial  and an increased likelihood of the outcome being serious or fatal.

Most  cells are  now known to have vitamin D receptors ( including bone muscle and nerves - elderly people have fewer falls if their vitamin levels are optimal)  

Maturation of white blood cells is impaired with low vitamin D levels and their ability to attack and kill and to produce “ cathelicidins”  which kill invaders is reduced. it has a role in “ modulating” the overall immune response- with low levels,  the initial white cell response is inhibited and the early production of chemical signals is impaired  but as infection gets hold there is an “ unmodulated” , unregulated and overreactive response  from the immune system  which attacks the very cells  it should protect , the so calked  “cytokine storm” which cause such  massive inflammation esp. in the lungs it can be  fatal.

Vitamin D suffers because it so cheap and readily available, It is not available on prescription(  except for proven deficiency) therefore it is not seen as a drug  neither does it fit easily in the “food” category.

The end result is that the people who need it most - care home residents simply don’t get it - the staff don’t like giving anything” unprescribed” and their doctors are unable to put it on prescription.

The name - We need to regard it as an essential pro-hormone ; a protective medical nutrient.Forget the vitamin bit.

 

There is little point in taking massive doses of any vitamin.

After. you have achieved the optimum level, from that point on any benefit is questionable.With the water soluble ones such as B and C you just making expensive urine and the fat soluble ones K, A,D, E though theoretically can   accumulate, though only A can seems to be documented as being frankly toxic.

In America (where heroic dosages seem to be  strangely attractive) , there was an account of someone taking of 50,000 units a day for months on   without apparent ill effects.Daft.

400 IU daily will achieve a reasonable level in most people, though  consensus  now seems to be  1000 IU

after that .. up to you...

I take 1000 IU

Regarding advice with other medication and possible interactions :

If you are on any regular medication especially certain anti-epileptic and  any cardiac medication that’s really a matter  for you to discuss with your prescribing doctor - only.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Nigel Clark said:

I suspect the reason many of us are free from colds is that we're following the guidelines regarding not mixing, social distancing and face coverings.

Nigel

Here then annual flu attack has been a virtual flop, hardly any cases. The reasons put forward are as you say

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Hi Unkel,

that reads pretty well.

There is no known maximum dose as there has been no research into it.

The 400IU/d is totally inadequate to combat any respiratory virus.  1000IU/d is low 'if' you do not already have a good level in your body to start with.

NICE are serious death peddlers - they are being pedantic to the Nth degree. Their main stated reason for not recommending the Hormone VitD3 is that the say it has not had enough large scale random trials. This is true -  but it has had many many small scale random trials that have all been successful (except one that was inconclusive)

Sadly the Welcome/Gates Accelerator for fast tracking drug creation does not apply to non patentable drugs (as there is not excessive profit to be gained - am I cynical, YES)

As with ALL medication - make sure you are compatible with it before taking it.

I take 5000IU/d. I was taking this level at this time last year and I came down with what I considered seasonal flu that then went onto my chest - Antoibiotics and Steroids sorted that out - I am now convinced that that was C19. My wife also came down with it and she is also convinced it was C19.

What would have happened if I was not on D3 

 

Stay safe

 

Roger

 

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I'm currently on iron tablets for my anaemia (Which they have sorted 90% of my low iron count) and blood pressure tablets. So at the moment, I'm not taking any other supplements including vit D - Right wrong, or indifferent! 

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21 hours ago, clive said:

I have been taking VitD for a few months. At a much higher dosage than the govt recommends, but other govts do recommend higher doses. There is no downside.

FWIW I have felt fine this winter, no sniffles etc, no reaction to my flu jab 2 weeks ago either (usually feel a little rough for a couple of days) so hoping it has boosted my immune system🙂

I had the Flu jab before Christmas (My first time) - no after effects at all. 

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15 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

No flu around this year, for some reason! 😆

I had the usual nonsense.

“Roll up your left sleeve”  

“No, right arm please”

”You’ll have to sign a disclaimer”

FGS! :angry:

Doug

 

Bizarre, I just get asked which arm. 

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Clive,

It’s happened every year for the past 4 or 5 years. They’re collecting data, no idea what for, but they feel they have to put an asterisk against my injection to signal it wasn’t done as the others. They are protecting themselves or the data against, I don’t know what?

Doug

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19 minutes ago, dougbgt6 said:

Clive,

It’s happened every year for the past 4 or 5 years. They’re collecting data, no idea what for, but they feel they have to put an asterisk against my injection to signal it wasn’t done as the others. They are protecting themselves or the data against, I don’t know what?

Doug

* troublemaker.

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3 hours ago, Anglefire said:

I'm currently on iron tablets for my anaemia (Which they have sorted 90% of my low iron count) and blood pressure tablets. So at the moment, I'm not taking any other supplements including vit D - Right wrong, or indifferent! 

Hi Mark,

The Hormone VitD3 (up to 1000IU/Day) should have no effect on your Iron intake/level  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4977672/

Roger

 

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3 hours ago, dougbgt6 said:

No flu around this year, for some reason! 😆

I had the usual nonsense.

“Roll up your left sleeve”  

“No, right arm please”

”You’ll have to sign a disclaimer”

FGS! :angry:

Doug

 

As a leftie that sounds like blatent discrimination, l always say right arm, never been a problem.

Regards

Paul.

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