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1500 Spitfire engine tap/rattle


Conor L
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I previously tried sliding the followers out with a magnet when I checked previously with no joy as the head gasket covers up the holes a tad. Not to worry though as it'll give me the opportunity to have the inlet manifold sorted and I may as well upgrade the head studs whilst I'm there.

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6 minutes ago, Iain T said:

stand corrected! 

never  theres always a way round things ,

if we were always right things would be most boring   easy to learn 

early followers were smaller (well on the 6pot ) might squeeze through 

ie heard of magnets and alsorts to hold followers up to whip the cam out 

but to pull one out thro' the head    we wait in anticipation 

Pete

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5 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

if we were always right things would be most boring   easy to learn 

I literally live by this! 

I've wasted no time at all this evening and pulled the head off which reminded me why I love these cars compared with the modern stuff I work with. Unfortunately I was unable to get the followers out prior to removing the head. My findings so far are that the bores are really clean with no scoring which for some reason I was worried about, some carbon on the piston tops which I expected, block surface is good, fished the followers out and can see that number 7 in particular hasn't been spinning with some vertical marks all round it number 6 is similar but not as bad, all the rest seem OK as does the cam lobes. Question is where to go from here? Replace all the followers for standard or 1s with the little hole in? Got a bit late tonight so I'll inspect the head and straightness of the push rods tomorrow after I've service my neighbours Audi.

20210205_224913_resized.thumb.jpg.ceae57dab146cc0f0ab442e78d380715.jpg20210205_224955.thumb.jpg.5315d08cf76b73c678a349bafafcf77d.jpg20210205_225356.thumb.jpg.4827949fc2bffe14a1a68a5382130479.jpg20210205_225429.thumb.jpg.d5aeb7ff7ce4bf655ad6afcf91275681.jpg

(Number 7 is on the left in the last picture)

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On 05/02/2021 at 14:43, Conor L said:

Today the noise that has been driving me mad has been identified! Stethoscope arrived this morning and it appears that number 6, 7 cam followers are tapping like mad.

Hi Conor. Glad your getting somewhere with it.

Have an ongoing noise on my engine, that I would like to pin down if I can. I have an engine stethoscope (only about a fiver new) that I guess should do the job?, though my inexperience on this listening stuff, maybe wont.

So interested where on the engine the cam follower noise was located with stethoscope?.

Ta, Dave  

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@Pete Lewis I've been doing some thinking about this and I reckon they've been a bit sticky might be related to the engine being say for over a year ½ before starting eventhough assembly lube was used I don't think being sat for that time would help. The holes where the followers sit are clean & dirt free.

@daverclasper my stethoscope was about £6 from the bay of E and is a must for finding noises accurately as nothing was noticeably obvious with a screwdriver. The noise was coming from just under the engine number, next the the core plug on the right side of the distributor very very noticeable with the scope. It was a very loud tap whereas the front lot were quiet.

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Just been out to have a look at the push pods and cylinder head, number 3 push rod is slightly bent remaining are fine. Cylinder head on the other hand is quite black/oily especially in number 4. Head was converted to unleaded, new valve guides, checked over and skimmed by a reputable company here in the Midlands (as seen on car sos) pistons tops are dry with just a bit of carbon on them. Is it possible that the head is leaking oil? 20210206_210441.thumb.jpg.53c755098cb31139d52c257b7f7c1e8d.jpg20210206_210456.thumb.jpg.d72bbadf84baf1211a2bc25dbf4610ba.jpg

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did it last run on choke  or its very rich mixture 

as there a good deal of soft soot about 

heads dont leak oil into the combustion chamber   ,the wet look could be due to not firing well

the valves are dry so not from valve guides oil . 

Pete

 

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Very very sooty but that's probably from all the idling; it takes a good run to clean the chambers properly. You've a lot of debris in the water pipes; I'd clean all of that out as a matter of urgency before a piece of scale drops off and blocks something important.

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  • 1 month later...

Well think it's about time I updated this. Finally manged to get some free time to reassemble the engine replacing the cam followers, pushrod all the gaskets etc. I thought beens I had to drain the oil anyway I'd whip the sump off and inspect the bearings, all seemed normal with no signs of any wear and the little ends seemed good too. Remeasured the end float just to be on the safe side again all seemed good and within spec. I've also had the manifold blanking plug thread sorted so that is now nicely sealed. Fired into life today, reset the ignition timing and... noise is still there 😕 but not as bad as it was which I guess in 1 way is a plus. Just give it a spin around the close the funny thing is under load all is good no noise engine pulls really well and feels strong but as soon as you lift off the throttle it goes tick tick tick tick. I'm happy the internals are good so I guess the fault finding continues until the car goes away again at the end of this month for the remainder of the paintwork to be completed.

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Also just going to throw in an odd ball here when driving with the choke out there's no noise at all and pulls even better but as soon as you push it back in again you get the tick tick tick tick as you let off. It's running standard needles and I am aware I need to run some richer needles so maybe the fueling being too lean could cause an issue? I could be talking nonsense though

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30 minutes ago, Bob Owen said:

Well that's somewhat annoying given all the hardwork--at least you know the engine is now in fine fettle!!

Yeah thats why I took the sump off to reassure myself like you say its annoying but nothing major which is a plus!

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did you/have  checked   the clutch disc damper springs ????

so  if you push on the gear stick does the syncro action dampen the ticking ???  (dont use the clutch)

ie at idle  feet off a firm attempt to engage a gear will load the input drives . this can help identify clutch or gear backlash clatter 

Pete

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Have you tried running it without the fan belt on? Obviously you can only run for a very short time as there is no water pump flow. I can't think what can be causing the noise, I'm just fumbling in the dark but this will eliminate any alternator/pump noise. 

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14 hours ago, Conor L said:

just going to throw in an odd ball here when driving with the choke out there's no noise at all and pulls even better but as soon as you push it back in again you get the tick tick tick tick as you let off.

Reminds me of a friend who had noises from the rear suspension as he drove along.  Up on ramps with the hand brake firmly applied, nothing could be found.  Turned out to be the slack hand brake cable hitting the boot floor but only apparent when the brake was off.  Could there be something slack in the cable or choke mechanism that resonates at a certain engine speed?  Again, just fumbling in the dark as the most obvious causes have been eliminated.

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