Keith M Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Hi, I'm Keith and I've owned a succession of various Triumphs since the early 80s. I currently own a 77 Stag and a stalled 1360 Herald restoration. Whilst I am still working from home during the pandemic, lockdown 2 has given me the impetus to restart the restoration of a Herald 1360 I started back in 2005. The car has been sat undercover for a good 10 years now, so I have been going back over everything that I'd done before. Previous work included a chassis strip and rebuild, all rust repairs completed and the dashboard stripped and relacquered. The car had an incorrect and worn 1150cc. So I rebuilt a 1300cc with new ancillaries including carburettor, alternator conversion and electronic ignition. Life and other cars got in the way and it sat neglected for many years. A lot of the work done before seems to have held up well. I'm now cleaning back to bare metal and epoxy priming all the outer panels. During the weekend I managed to get the engine to fire up for the first time in 10years. I doubt it has run for more than 30 mins since it was rebuilt. Lots of problems to work through. Carb is flooding and leaking fuel and timing is way off. As an initial call for help maybe someone can shed some light on why my timing light won't flash on this engine. It works fine on both my aircooled VW camper and the Stag. Both the Stag and the Herald have electronic ignition and silicon plug leads. So I don't think that is the problem. Looking forward to connecting with you all. As aquired in 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Hi Keith, welcome and good luck with the Herald, it looks like a good solid car so here's hoping that lockdown will see another one back on the road. What brand is your timing gun? No reason why it shouldn't work so it's bound to be something simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith M Posted January 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Hi Colin. I think the 'simple' here is me as I've never had a problem with it before. It's a Gunsen 4133. The heavy duty one with the dial advance. I've tried all the plug leads including the king lead in both directions. Would normally connect to #1 pointing the arrow on the inductive pick up to the plug. Must be something like a weak spark or something blocking the signal. It's certainly got me stumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinR Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Keith, Have you tested the timing light with another vehicle SINCE its not been working on the Herald. I have a Gunson 4123 Supastrobe timing light (big and very heavy duty), and the pickup on it failed when it was about a year old. A new pickup (under warranty) and it was good as new again - I've had it now for about 30 years, but not needed to use it for quite a while now as its quicker and easier to set the timing statically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Hi Keith, welcome to the forum. It might sound daft but is your Herald positive earth? I fell for that once. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, poppyman said: Hi Keith, welcome to the forum. It might sound daft but is your Herald positive earth? I fell for that once. Tony. I had thought about that, but it's too late, being a 13/60, and looks to be one of the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 i would check the 12v polarity on the coil Ie neg to dizzy I have snap on and gunsons both have done this on odd cars but cant remember why are you on std points ?? Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith M Posted January 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 I checked and confirmed it as working on my other cars at the weekend. Its a 1970 model so positive earth. Electronic ignition, silicone leads and control box bypassed for alternator conversion. Electronic ignition module can only be connected the correct way or it blows up. Ask me how I know. Expensive mistake. I've had this car for 15yrs now and havent worked on it for about 10yrs. So its quite possible I did something stupid way back along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 18, 2021 Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Keith M said: Its a 1970 model so positive earth. Negative earth surely? my '68 model 13/60 is at any rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith M Posted January 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2021 Yes Neg earth. My bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith M Posted January 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 I've ordered a set of standard ignition leads to rule out the silicone suppressed leads causing the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 I'd have pinched one from one of the other cars and tried that; doesn't matter how long it is or what it looks like as it's only to check that the other lead is the problem. Of course I'm tighter than a duck's whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith M Posted January 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 OK so here is the update. The weekend arrives and I can finally get back to the Herald. Tried substituting a lead from the Stag and still did not work. Then new leads arrived so I used one of them on #1 plug. Nada. swapped out the king lead. Nada. I replaced all leads with the new set and hey presto timing light now working. So now I can move on a bit. The fuel mixture was set up with a Colourtune but will likely still need further work. The engine can only start on full choke but ran for a while on Sat warming up so I could accurately set the timing. Then it unexpectedly conked out. I discovered there was no fuel getting to carb. So checked and cleaned the pump this morning and now able to start again. I finally got the engine to run again and thought my problems were over. Then after about 5 mins running, it started to miss and then conked out again. It appears to start and run OK when cold but as soon as it starts to warm up it starts to misfire and then stops. I did wonder if the coil was failing but primary resistance is 1.5 Ohm and secondary is 9.7K Ohm, so it appears good. And then the carb overflows. Carb is actually a new item. I've lost count of the number of times I've removed it, cleaned the needle valve, and checked the float height (18mm). Oh, and the rad now looks like it's sprung a leak. So this is where I'm at now. https://youtu.be/GQOww64SnWU . I grabbed my phone and shot some video as it started to misfire. Unfortunately, I won't be able to get back to this for a while. A front spring on the 75 broke earlier in the week which I'll have to replace next weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 A coil with resistance of 1.5 ohms would be for a system with ballast resistor which I wouldnt have expected your car to have. You can test which set up it has by turning on the ignition with the points closed and measuring the voltage to earth of both terminals. You should get 0v on the side going to the points and around 6v on the other. If this second reading is battery voltage ie over 12v then you have the wrong coil and need one with a resistance of 3 ohms. Obviously dont leave the ignition on too long like this as the coil will get hot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Keith, Missing, carb overflow, conking out smacks of the dread rubber slivers and/or debris in the fuel jamming the reservoir valves sometimes open, sometimes closed. Do you have a fuel filter? If no, get one, best place to fit is just before the fuel pump. Some people have a second just before the carbs. The slivers are deterioration of the insides of the rubber fuel line caused by disconnecting/reconnecting the carbs and fuel line. Sounds unlikely? It's not, it's very common, Last time I had my carbs off 3 times in quick succession before I eliminated the little buggers! Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Strange that it keeps on running for so long after the fault starts. If it was fuel starvation it should have conked out completely. It's hunting alright, but it's the reason why it keeps on running, appearing to clear regularly - in fact too regularly - makes me wonder about the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougbgt6 Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Its slivers, mark my words! db Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Arrrrr... sliver me timbers, Jim lad. (That's the Arrr factor up again...) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daverclasper Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 (edited) Just wondering, if you have looked at the plugs when it starts misbehaving. I once fitted an air filter upside-down, which blocked the air flow (I think gaskets also wrong could do this) on Twin carb Vitesse. It would run fine for 3 miles or so and then just bad. If I'd looked at the plugs, then it would have been obvious (rather than gradually changing all the ignition system), one carb was over fueling/not enough air (in this case air), which would have eliminated the ignition system. Not so, on a singe carb. I'm no expert, though maybe give an idea?. Edited January 24, 2021 by daverclasper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith M Posted January 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 So just to remind everyone, this car is halfway through a full restoration and hasnt been on the road since 2005. I just want to get the rebuilt engine running well before I pull everything apart for paint. I have a Powerspark electronic ignition system installed so will have to replace the points to do the test Johny suggests. I checked the Powerspark site where I bought the electronic ignition and they do recommend a 3ohm coil. So it looks like I may have the wrong coil. The fuel pump was full of rubber bits and its quite possible its fouled up again. I only have a jerry can rigged up as a fuel supply at the moment with no filters. Long story short, back in 2005 I had the idea of moving the fuel filler to the centre of the rear deck. The Spitfire tank I fitted needs a clean internally which is one of the reasons why I'm using a temporary plastic jerry can. I'm trying to decide whether or not to revert this modification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Keith, its no problem without points as you can just disconnect the wire that goes from the coil to the electronic ignition and replace it with an earth wire then measure as previously described... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith M Posted January 25, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 Nipped out to the garage earlier to test the coil and got 11V on the +ve side and .5V on the -ve side. So will swap it for a 3 Ohm one. Will clean the fuel side again and add filters when I get a bit more time and fingers crossed, I should be back in business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 25, 2021 Report Share Posted January 25, 2021 That could make a big difference as a ballast coil running on full voltage will tend to overheat and the entire HT circuit suffer shorts due to the excessive voltage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 and if you fit a 3 ohm coil you need to bypass the resistive feed to get a full 12v supply if the coil is fed by a dirty white/pink its a ballast wire you need a replacement feed from the ign. switch feed a 3 ohm coil with 6 v and you reverse from too much HT to having very little HT feed a 1.5ohm coil with 12v and you double the HT and the amperage so rotors condensers and cap all give out and if electronic have a good chance of frying it pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted January 27, 2021 Report Share Posted January 27, 2021 57 minutes ago, Pete Lewis said: and if you fit a 3 ohm coil you need to bypass the resistive feed to get a full 12v supply No, he's fitting a 3 ohm coil because he doesn't have a resistive feed On 25/01/2021 at 15:11, Keith M said: Nipped out to the garage earlier to test the coil and got 11V on the +ve side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now