Roger K Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 Just finishing off the rear axle job, car on the ground and final tightening of the wheel nuts to torque. Second nut on the driver's side - get to 36ftlbs at which point there's a loud bang and the stud shears off. The torque wrench is accurate, and it didn't feel very tight when it broke. Stared at it for a couple of minutes in disbelief... The hub as a brand new Bastuck one, as supplied by Rimmers. Looks very nicely made, but... not sure I trust either of them now! The broken stud face looks like a casting crack, not sure. I checked the torque figures before I started in the shop manual - can't find a reading for MkIII, but the MkII asks for 38-42ftlbs only, which seems very low to me. Makes no odds - this one broke before I got even that far. Before I jack the thing up to investigate, can anyone tell me if it's possible to change the stud without dismantling the entire back axle? Or is it hub puller time again - if so, I presume I can do it on the car? This thing's jinxed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 You should be able change it on the car Roger, they are only splined into the hub. Knock the remaining bit in with a drift and pull the new one through using new nut with spacing washers. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 Thanks Tony, Yes, there is room. I’ve checked the broken one against an old one I removed (which all seem to be bent!), and the new Bastuck ones are longer, with the head fitting flush in the rear face of the hub. The old ones won’t do that - the head sits proud and far less thread pokes through. I guess I’ll need four new studs to make sure they’re all the same. Not impressed by the Bastuck part at that price - this is a safety-critical part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 I notice alloy wheel studs Roger, make sure they haven't bottomed out? That might explain it. You can use the old ones Roger. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 Not alloy, Tony, steel. At least, I could retrieve the loose piece I tapped out with a magnet probe.... the torque wrench (Snapon Techwrench) would have tripped for whatever reason, and the wrench was not tight when it broke. Saved reading was 36ftlbs only after it broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppyman Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 If you could get it out, i guess it hadn't bottomed out. Probably rubbish steel, i would swap all for the old ones. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 I'm not sure because the old ones don't seat in the hub the same way, see difference in shape above. Also I tapped all four out of the old hub, and when cleaning them up I realised they were all bent to some extent. I don't really want to fit bent ones! I've ordered some new studs, but will need to talk to Rimmer's on Monday about this. I'm getting 40mm studs, but the originals seem shorter than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiation Man Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 Pretty sure the originals are 40mm long overall. I am in process of swapping over to 12mm Freelander studs and have just knocked a few of the old ones out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 im sure we fiited 12mm ford studs front and rear as for the torque remember the origs are only a 3/8 x24 unf thread and 42 is a maximum and fiiting the 12mm needed a small chamfer on the front just to clear the machined register in the hub as for rears they fitted ok with the shoes removed, many cut a access hole in the back plate its the best mod you can do use ford or LR or just triumph 2000 saloon or TR studs being 7/16" unf anything it better than those feeble 3/8 studs Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 Hi Roger, can you post a well focused close up picture. I may be able to see what is going on. What diameter of stud? What car? Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 That's the best close up I could get. The shiny areas are where the drift tapped the stud out of the hub. I suspect the slightly darker area around the upper perimeter may be a fault line. The car's a GT6 Mk3 and the stud diameter is 3/8 (UNF). Pete, I agree that these are pretty feeble. As I mentioned earlier, I had a job replacing the front wheels just after I bought the car because the studs were not parallel - some were bent quite noticeably. I don't think the stock ones are safe. I've ordered a single TR6 one to experiment with. I don't really want metric as it will just confuse me. Plus I want to use the original chrome wheel centres, so need the stepped style of nut. I've ordered a TR6 one of those as well to check properly. Do the TR6 studs press into the hubs OK? I presume the hole is the same, just the threaded portion is thicker? The splines would presumably also be the same. It's a bit odd that the TR6 uses different studs front and rear - anybody know why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerH Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 Hi Roger, not a lot to see there. I assume that the threads are rolled. Cutting with a die is not good for high loads. Very odd. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 Anybody tried the TR6 offerings? Easy to fit, front and rear, and with proper TR6 chrome nuts can I fit the GT6 centre trims? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 Believe big saloon ones work, can be fitted without any dismantling and work with the TR6 nuts Nick BTW, odd fracture surface on that stud. More crystalline/granular than usual for a broken bolt I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 yes the studs spline is the same size and fits the orig hub holes ok as i said earlier if the head is larger the fronts may pitch on the hub register and only needs a small file to add a small chamfer in the contact point or the stud will self misalign wonky Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted January 23, 2021 Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 5 hours ago, Roger K said: Anybody tried the TR6 offerings? Easy to fit, front and rear, and with proper TR6 chrome nuts can I fit the GT6 centre trims? TR6 ( and 2000) is more power I guess. Fit straight in if you want to try them. I have Freelander studs on 2 small chassis cars, with Escort or fiesta nuts I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 23, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Nick Jones said: BTW, odd fracture surface on that stud. More crystalline/granular than usual for a broken bolt I think? That's rather what I was thinking, Nick. It doesn't look like any broken bolt I can remember. Thanks all, I'll report back once the TR6 parts arrive and I can experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 I`m no Metalurgist, I admit, But the cross section looks to me as if there may have been an inherant defect?. The wrong spec; of material? or perhaps the wrong Heat Treatment?. I note too, that the failure is at the Neck, a favourite spot for any "notches", wherever there is a change of section the potential is there. IF, it has been "pre-used" it could have been over tightened in a previous life, (Not unknown!!) the material would then have exceeded it`s "elastic limit"?. I would be inclined to replace the whole set, personally. The recomendation of a change to L-R studs sounds "like a plan"?. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 I bought some Land Rover studs to use with standard steel wheels on my Vitesse, the unthreaded portion was to long the nut bottomed out leaving the wheel loose. Bought locally from a motor factor who specialises in Land Rover parts. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 25 minutes ago, 68vitesse said: I bought some Land Rover studs to use with standard steel wheels on my Vitesse, the unthreaded portion was to long the nut bottomed out leaving the wheel loose. Bought locally from a motor factor who specialises in Land Rover parts. Regards Paul Then they are not the proper Freelander CLP9037L studs, which are threaded all the way down. Instead they are the somewhat similar ones used on Rover 100 & MGF. Unfortunately many suppliers seem to consider them all the same and I’ve even received batches with some of each. They do work with some alloy wheels but not, as you have discovered, with steels. Apparently the same applies on Freelanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Images from Google adverts. IMV there is a distinct difference.? But all purport to be to CLP9037L?. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68vitesse Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 28 minutes ago, PeteH said: Images from Google adverts. IMV there is a distinct difference.? But all purport to be to CLP9037L?. Pete Like these. Regards Paul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 24, 2021 Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 yes if you use capped/dome nuts you must check they dont bottom out pretty much all the alternatives are going to be longer than the weeny 3/8 unf that are well past their best and often suffer from gorilla hands torque on 7/16" studs 55/60 lbft always retorque after a short run as studs may not be fully seated and you get funny noises on corners as the wheel starts to fret about Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2021 Good advice all. I have one TR6 stud coming - well, two actually - one front and one rear, so I can see how they are different and which suits best. Assuming they look all good, which I'm sure one of them will, I'll probably spend a couple of hours on the lathe turning them to the best length and putting a short blank reduced radius on the ends. I might even look at the tapered seat, if I feel like it, as it might be worth reproducing the seat on the originals for a nice fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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