Roger K Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 Can anyone tell me what a gearbox with number beginning 'WE' was originally designed for, please? Have searched the net, but can't find a Triumph box WE anywhere. It's a small Triumph box with a D-type overdrive attached. Thanks Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 Hi, Ive come across these gearboxes and its been discussed previously what theyre from with no conclusive answer. My personal suspicion is that theyre from a Dolomite 1850 being one of 3 types used in them which all had the same ratios as GT6/Vitesse 2L. When opened Ive found: WE - early 3 rail with small sync rings. WH - late 3 rail with large sync rings. WM - single rail with large sync rings and tip bearing The individual components of these 3 arent all interchangeable but of course are with the equivalent boxes used in other models. The original bell housing would have been the give away as its unique to the 1850 but of course can have been swopped for our version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 It will be a reused casing if it has a D-type on it, as it would have had a J-type in a Dolomite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, johny said: Hi, Ive come across these gearboxes and its been discussed previously what theyre from with no conclusive answer. My personal suspicion is that theyre from a Dolomite 1850 being one of 3 types used in them which all had the same ratios as GT6/Vitesse 2L. When opened Ive found: Be careful, Dolomite 1850 3-rail uses same gearset as Mk3 GT6, which is NOT the same as Mk 1/2 Vitesse and GT6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 As I say I wonder if two types of 3 rail were used in the 1850, the WE and WH, as Ive got a nonOD example of the first and the internals look to be exactly the same as my original Vitesse 2L unit. Another possibility is that the WE was used on Marina 1800 but that would need another design of bell housing which isnt what came with mine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 I plan to have it as a backup for my late GT6. Hope it's suitable. edit - it didn't come with a bellhousing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 Some pics to help. I think the overdrive's been there from new! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 My expectation is that it will go straight in as a swop and have the same ratios but as the scrapmans says the OD type maybe different. The D type OD you have there requires a relay to operate it while the later J type (solenoid on opposite side) has a lower current draw so can be wired directly tothe switch. However if buying spares to overhaul this gearbox check first what it has internally as I think for example the sync rings will be part number 148409 rather than the late GT6 type 150328. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 I fitted a Dolomite 1850 box as a straight fit to my GT6, to get the benefit of the J-type overdrive. To be honest, I've never noticed any problems with ratios and the revs drop very nicely in overdrive 4th for cruising. I'm assuming the Marina never had overdrive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 didnt later 3 rails have a updated tooth profile dont know how you identify this but if old /new are mixed i would expect a whiner but from a peer inside look the same . i had a slave 3R box which someone had spent ££ making a mess of with single rail rattling fit hubs and wrong reverse count ....disaster for them & not much use to me pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 yes I think on some gears the teeth helix angles were changed to reduce noise and so can only be mixed if the corresponding layshaft is used. Then of course thats how apparently some frankenstein boxes have been found with both types of synchro rings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 So, do you think this gearbox acquired its D-type overdrive later, and had a J-type originally? The one on it now looks like it's been there forever, but I suppose it could have been changed earlier in its life. Am I right in thinking that (apart from the number) this is basically a GT6MkI/II 'box? I see the suppliers seem to have the parts for a rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 the 3 rail/4 syncro cases are all the same, and the vast majority of these boxes will have been rebuilt at least once, probably more. Rebuilders would/should have used mathed gearsets etc. There are subtle differences, not immediately obvious. And if everything doesn't match it will be very noisy at best. So never buy gearbox internals unless you are absolutely certain what you need. And that means digging inside first. The biggest issue is that some stuff just isn't available new, and unless you get lucky good spares are hard to find. Even synchro quality is "variable" and requires good fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 you cant fit a D type to a J type mainshaft the ratio is +25% on a search its showing as spitfire /gt6/Vitesse overdrive Type D http://www.bastuck2.de/00reloaded/media/pict/FKG_2100210000.png G03SPT (25/61959) exchange-Overdrive D-Typ (Spitfire MK1-4, GT6, Vitesse) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 Interesting, thanks Pete. So it looks like either this gearbox is from a car that used a D-type overdrive from new, or at some point the overdrive and mainshaft were changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 Its difficult to confirm which types of OD were used in the 1850 but there are spares kits on ebay specifically for 1850 3 rail D type ODs. It does seem likely that this was the case initally as the 1850 was first sold from 1972 and I dont think Triumph adopted the J type OD until late 73.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 All 1850 were J type. Early ones 3 rail, then single rail. As usual an ebay seller is confused! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 All I can think then is that the early 1850 werent offered with OD... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 17 minutes ago, johny said: Its difficult to confirm which types of OD were used in the 1850 but there are spares kits on ebay specifically for 1850 3 rail D type ODs. It does seem likely that this was the case initally as the 1850 was first sold from 1972 and I dont think Triumph adopted the J type OD until late 73.... J-type was never used on GT6, which ended their production run in 1973, so the introduction must have been after that date, or at least the closest point where production was being run down, probably late 1972. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 its undoubtedly a 6cyl 3 rail box and d type of obvious ageism , looks unmolested i suggest a good clean of the WE and see if this is an overstamp with the orig number faced off as WE doesnt exist on any base triumph data its a good chance the boxes WE are works exchange units not original units seeing WE exists ...but in realty it doesnt Marina boxes cases were said to not be numbered GR was the triumph factory reconditioned prefix WE will remain a puzzle Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger K Posted January 31, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 ...so not an 1850 'box then. Hmmm - must be worth a fortune, it's obviously rare. Or very little, 'cos it's a lash-up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 49 minutes ago, Roger K said: Hmmm - must be worth a fortune, it's obviously rare. A lot of items listed like that on eBay... rare so must be worth £££££££££££... then the seller finds out why it's been sitting for years and why there aren't any others left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 whoopee Ive got one as well! Also I know someone with an M reg GT6 so I'll have a look at its OD as maybe thats something rare as well🤑 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 The J type od was introduced in the 60's, used on teh dolomite 1850 from 1972 and sprint from 73, then on all gearboxes from 1974. Maybe teh dolomite was the testbed? or not used on GT6 as sales were dwindling and they had stock of D types to use up? Who knows, BL were not exactly known for making rational decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescrapman Posted January 31, 2021 Report Share Posted January 31, 2021 Spitfire went to J-type with very last Mk4, I have a Couple of them. TR6 went J-type with the CR cars, so 73. Same with Big Saloons, about 73 I think. My 2 1850 3-rails boxes are WE ones, well one was, it has recently been rebuilt into a spare casing, so is now in a GR overstamped one, which show signs of being a WE before interestingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now