Door Gaps again

[Paul H]

Just about to bite the bullet and attempt to correct the Drivers door gap on my Vitesse Saloon . 

This is part of the long term project to attempt to correct body tub spread . The passenger side gaps are more equal though evidence of body tub spread ie bottom of doors proud 

First stage is to remove the sill which is easier said than done as none of the screws are visible as covered in filler . The sill is in good order so not sure why filler was necessary . So looks like making a mess to start with .

I have replacement sills so at least I know where to dig to find the screws 

With the sill removed and prior to jacking the body ( chassis bolts removed ) will I need to remove the saloon roof ? 

Any tips n tricks welcome 

Paul 

 

[Colin Lindsay]

I don't know if you need to fully remove it but I'd loosen the bolts to let it slide. It should make gap adjustment easier if you're not fighting against the rigidity of the roof. 

[Paul H]

The first screws which turned out to be rivets are out by drilling . There is a gap between the top of the sill and body floor which had been filled with filler so just for ascetic reasons . Sealer would have done a better and neater job 

Paul 

[Pete Lewis]

 

I would +1 for slacken /even lift to  free the rubber  on  roof to rear deck fixings 

when i refitted sills  I used a large shallow headed pop rivet , needed a lazytongs gun to pull them 

I have one local Vitesse where the sills and tread plates have all been welded to make it a mono shell you cant separate

the rear tub from the baulkhead      looks nice but recipe for headaches in the future  

 

[Colin Lindsay]

I found the photos of one I mentioned a while back, where every single seam on the car had been filled in and the entire body coated in some kind of resin like a boat. Sills, treadplates, rear valences, no seams just a flat surface. Even the overriders were painted white. Bet it never rusted, but must be a nightmare to repair...

  

[daverclasper]

3 hours ago, Paul H said:

This is part of the long term project to attempt to correct body tub spread .

Hi Paul. I seem to remember you did some addressing of TS, by pushing out the rear wings. Did this work ok?.

Aside, there used to be a body resto of a Vit by Willow Triumph online, maybe still there? (not Quiller Triumph, unless I've I got them mixed up). It was a car that had been typically messed about with over the years.   

To get a good result, a lot of the panels had been lengthened/shortened, bit of a nightmare I think, though interesting!.

Dave 

[Paul H]

1 minute ago, daverclasper said:

Hi Paul. I seem to remember you did some addressing of TS, by pushing out the rear wings. Did this work ok?.

Aside, there used to be a body resto of a Vit by Willow Triumph online, maybe still there? (not Quiller Triumph, unless I've I got them mixed up). It was a car that had been typically messed about with over the years.   

To get a good result, a lot of the panels had been lengthened/shortened, bit of a nightmare I think, though interesting!.

Dave 

Hi Dave , yes it did have an effect and the boot gap on drivers side is improved. There was a lot of creaking and it was a tad disconcerting . I plan to use the stretcher again to assist when the B posts straps are in place .

Paul 

[PeteH]

https://forum.tssc.org.uk/topic/6697-rear-tub-spread-dimension/page/2/

The foregoing was Posted when I was trying to get some Sense into the C-V. Donr know if it is of use?.

Pete

[Paul H]

Struggling to get the drivers sill off . There is a door tread plate which has a right angle which covers 3 rivets securing the sill . So the tread plate has to be removed . This is again riveted BUT from the underside . I have a pit but can’t get clear access to drill out from the underside . So looks like I will have to carefully grind off the rivet tops . Is the door tread plate original and were tread plates fitted as standard ? 

 

Paul 

Update : I’m able to remove the rivets from above by using a dot punch knocking out the metal rivet . Then they can easily be drilled out 

[Paul H]

Drivers door sill now removed and in serviceable order . I started to remove the chassis bolts by the B post and forward . To my surprise a noticeable gap appeared , the biggest by the B Post with 10mm gap.  Pic with the arrow . The next pic is the chassis bolt half way between the B and A post .

I’m not sure if this will make the door gap correction easier or harder 

The chassis bolts are relativly easy to remove as the PO did a body off in 2012 .

Paul 

 

 

[Paul H]

On 03/02/2021 at 18:44, daverclasper said:

Hi Paul. I seem to remember you did some addressing of TS, by pushing out the rear wings. Did this work ok?.

Aside, there used to be a body resto of a Vit by Willow Triumph online, maybe still there? (not Quiller Triumph, unless I've I got them mixed up). It was a car that had been typically messed about with over the years.   

To get a good result, a lot of the panels had been lengthened/shortened, bit of a nightmare I think, though interesting!.

Dave 

Found the Willow Triumph restoration 

Thanks 

https://www.willowtriumph.co.uk/triumph-vitesse-2ltr-mk2-body-restoration

Paul 

 

[Colin Lindsay]

13 minutes ago, Paul H said:

I’m not sure if this will make the door gap correction easier or harder 

Set the rear tub on the chassis, align to the front tub / doors, and see how the gaps look with rubber mounting pads only, no shims or spacers. Jack and shim at the required mounting points until the gaps are as good as can be and only then, with the shimmed points resting only and untightened, inspect the other mounts to see if they're still showing a gap, in which case shim as necessary to close the gap but not to raise any further. Tighten to the bare minimum needed to secure the tub, not so much that you squash the mounting pads. It's the same way that I fit the bonnet; rest in place first, slide to gap, and only then line up the brackets, insert the bolts and tighten.

That one may have been tightened without the required spacers in which case it will have been tightened right down regardless of any gap and won't have helped the body alignment. 

[Paul H]

3 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Set the rear tub on the chassis, align to the front tub / doors, and see how the gaps look with rubber mounting pads only, no shims or spacers. Jack and shim at the required mounting points until the gaps are as good as can be and only then, inspect the untightened mounts to see if they're still showing a gap, in which case shim as necessary to close the gap but not to raise any further. Tighten to the bare minimum needed to secure the tub, not so much that you squash the mounting pads. That one may have been tightened without the required spacers in which case it will have been tightened right down regardless of any gap and won't have helped the body alignment. 

Does the roof bolts need to be loose 

Paul 

[Colin Lindsay]

Just now, Paul H said:

Does the roof bolts need to be loose 

Paul 

Only if you want to be able to slide the tub about... so, yes; at least the ones above the screen but you want it to move freely. I forgot you hadn't taken the entire tub off so undo all of the tub mounting bolts, right off, and don't forget the centre seatbelt mountings.

[Pete Lewis]

both  front and rear deck roof fixings can allow some shift but the rubbers can grip/stuck   and need relaxing or it wont move ,

so a gentle dig with a scraper to break the seal 

Pete

 

[Paul H]

Update : adjusting drivers door gap 

The chassis bolts under the B post and mid door are loose now . It was noticeable the B post chassis bolt opened up between the side runner and floor , approx 10mm . I haven’t removed the roof bolts yet and this still has to be done . 
I added a 12mm packer ( alloy tubing ) to the B post and 5mm packer to the next chassis bolt ( mid door ) . There was an existing 3 mm gap already . To fit I jacked up the floor area by the each chassis bolt and inserted the alloy packers . 
The alloy tubing is a temp fix and will be replaced by alloy washers when the door gapping is correct .

The next pic shows the alloy tubing packers ( arrowed ) 

 

The next pic of the drivers door is pre adding the packers , check the gap by the chrome strip 

The next pic is after the alloy packers have been added . The gap by the chrome strip has increased by approx 0.5mm so the packers are working 

 

I need now to release the roof bolts and increase the packing , my rough calculation is 2mm of packing will widen the gap by 0.5mm

Paul 
 

 

[Pete Lewis]

looks to be heading the right way 

Pete

[DanMi]

you are probably trying to achieve a better result than the factory ever did, but fair play for trying.

[thescrapman]

On 05/02/2021 at 12:57, Paul H said:

Struggling to get the drivers sill off . There is a door tread plate which has a right angle which covers 3 rivets securing the sill . So the tread plate has to be removed . This is again riveted BUT from the underside . I have a pit but can’t get clear access to drill out from the underside . So looks like I will have to carefully grind off the rivet tops . Is the door tread plate original and were tread plates fitted as standard ? 

 

Paul 

Update : I’m able to remove the rivets from above by using a dot punch knocking out the metal rivet . Then they can easily be drilled out 

Are your treadplates cut from an old freezer?

[Paul H]

32 minutes ago, thescrapman said:

Are your treadplates cut from an old freezer?

Fitted by the PO , very thin and were held with Tiger Seal plus rivets . Impossible to remove without creasing . Not sure where they came from but look identical to Paddocks which would have cost £50 plus so have purchased and waiting on these from EBay 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PAIR-TRIUMPH-LOGO-LAUREL-TREAD-PLATE-THRESHOLD-SPITFIRE-GT6-VITESSE-TR4-6-S-S/182556207568?

Paul 

[Paul H]

On 05/02/2021 at 15:12, Colin Lindsay said:

Set the rear tub on the chassis, align to the front tub / doors, and see how the gaps look with rubber mounting pads only, no shims or spacers. Jack and shim at the required mounting points until the gaps are as good as can be and only then, with the shimmed points resting only and untightened, inspect the other mounts to see if they're still showing a gap, in which case shim as necessary to close the gap but not to raise any further. Tighten to the bare minimum needed to secure the tub, not so much that you squash the mounting pads. It's the same way that I fit the bonnet; rest in place first, slide to gap, and only then line up the brackets, insert the bolts and tighten.

That one may have been tightened without the required spacers in which case it will have been tightened right down regardless of any gap and won't have helped the body alignment. 

Colin the gapping exercise is working though the spacer is currently 12mm and likely to end up at 15mm to 17mm. . I was planning to use penny washers . Or should I be using Rubber packing or half and half 

Paul  

[Colin Lindsay]

7 minutes ago, Paul H said:

Colin the gapping exercise is working though the spacer is currently 12mm and likely to end up at 15mm to 17mm. . I was planning to use penny washers . Or should I be using Rubber packing or half and half 

Paul  

Use whatever will allow minimum movement and more importantly minimum vibrations to be transmitted through the chassis to the body. Some of the currently-supplied rubber pads compress, which leads to a lot of squeaking and movement; if you can, get the fibre-reinforced versions which don't compress but still pad against vibration.

Those treadplates are a different type to the flat versions; designed for the very edge of the sill (which is narrower in the Spitfire / GT6 than the Herald / Vitesse range) they're narrower so they'll act as an edge protector, but may sit quite far out from the door aperture on the Vitesse.

[Pete Lewis]

i would tend towards one rubber disc and the rest made from solid

i ended up with around 20mm in odd places putting a rebuilt wonky body of a rebuilt straight chassis 

too much rubber makes it squeegee it needs to decouple but not allow the tub to shift . 

i cut rubber canvass discs from a truck mudflap and hole saw 

Pete 

[poppyman]

On 05/02/2021 at 12:57, Paul H said:

Struggling to get the drivers sill off . There is a door tread plate which has a right angle which covers 3 rivets securing the sill . So the tread plate has to be removed . This is again riveted BUT from the underside . I have a pit but can’t get clear access to drill out from the underside . So looks like I will have to carefully grind off the rivet tops . Is the door tread plate original and were tread plates fitted as standard ? 

 

Paul 

Update : I’m able to remove the rivets from above by using a dot punch knocking out the metal rivet . Then they can easily be drilled out 

What are seats out of Paul? They look comfy.

Tony.

[PeteH]

2 hours ago, thescrapman said:

Are your treadplates cut from an old freezer?

They are identical to those which came with my 13/60 "Kit of Parts". So maybe someone is recycling old freezers?.

Pete