Rear spring excessive camber

[MikeSz]

Do rear springs loose flexing ability over time if unused ? 

I am restoring a MK1 Vitesse which has been off the road for many years. It has been jacked up and down a lot during the course of the restoration, and now at the end of the restoration the rear wheels seem to be permanently tucked under, and short drives don't bring it back to normal. The rear spring  appears OK to look at but shows no flexing when jacking. The lower trunions  have been renewed and therefor not ceased.

I am aware of the tuck-in characteristics when jacked up, and my previous experience is that a short drive sorts it out.

There plenty of discussion about sagging springs but mine appear to be the opposite. Am I looking at a new spring ( I see that Rimmers sell them) to bring back to norn?

Advice would be welcome

[PeteH]

No doubt someone will come along with a difinitive (ish) answer. In the meantime, We had an early (1968) Mk2 (2litre) back in the 80`s. it was Mrs Pete`s commuter, and most of the time it had 1cwt (before decimalisation) bag of sand in the boot which "assisted" in that department. To be fair, I do not see that being relieved of stress would affect the spring adversely?, so it is likely that replacing it would not alter anything?.

Pete

Edit:- Just a thought?. The Courier van would have a stiffer spring (I would have thought). Not beyond the realm of possibility that some PO had swapped it out?.

P

Edited February 25, 2021 by PeteH
text

[johny]

The various steel strips of the spring have to move relative to each other for it to flex and some people even apply oil to prevent them rusting and seizing. Is it possible this has happened?

Another trick is to do the final tightening of the rubber bush fixings (link arms and spring eyes) with the car on the ground so everything is in its normal position although this isnt so easy to do....

I cant see a new spring will help and in the end think, if the suspension was ok to start with, it will pretty quickly sort itself out with use. 

[Clive]

10 hours ago, MikeSz said:

Do rear springs loose flexing ability over time if unused ? 

I am restoring a MK1 Vitesse which has been off the road for many years. It has been jacked up and down a lot during the course of the restoration, and now at the end of the restoration the rear wheels seem to be permanently tucked under, and short drives don't bring it back to normal. The rear spring  appears OK to look at but shows no flexing when jacking. The lower trunions  have been renewed and therefor not ceased.

I am aware of the tuck-in characteristics when jacked up, and my previous experience is that a short drive sorts it out.

There plenty of discussion about sagging springs but mine appear to be the opposite. Am I looking at a new spring ( I see that Rimmers sell them) to bring back to norn?

Advice would be welcome

(delayed post due to forum outage)

I doubt springs gain a memory from being unstressed. So would ignore that.

Was teh car on the ground, or the rear uprights jacked up to running position when the spring eye bolts were done up? If the spring was at full droop when tightened, that will result in extra ride height. 

Apart from that, it is worth noting the vitesse mk1 spring is almost the strongest spring available. But should not give excessive positive camber. 

It may be worth double checking the spring bushes as above, then give the spring a good workout. Load the boot up, do some hump-backed bridges etc so the spring gets a wide range of movement and that may settle it correctly. (just thinking, have you had the spring apart, lubricated the leaves or suchlike?)

If the problems persists, I would suggest a lowering block, available in 1/2, 3/4 and 1". New springs are very hit and miss, often seem to have odd ride heights, and one I bought sagged and the bushes failed spectacularly in one 4 day trip to Scotland. (It was from a decent supplier, who refunded me no problem, but it was british made and supposed to be good quality. I also gather the old imperial sized steel is not easily available, so makers tend to use metric steel, which is different thickness. Not much, but over 6/7 or whatever leafs it adds up. Plus the arch varies hugely depending on who makes them)

As to Petes courier question. The courier spring is much stronger, but also flatter. I fitted one to a herald estate with a 1" lowering block, and it handled like it was on rails. Behaved very well on autosolos and road rallies.

[NonMember]

11 hours ago, MikeSz said:

The lower trunions  have been renewed and therefor not ceased.

Your logic here is hopelessly wrong! The fact that you've renewed the trunnions makes them a very likely candidate for the cause. Especially with some kits still being sold where the steel tube is too short. If you fitted one of those kits then you have locked the trunnions solid when you tightened them up.

[68vitesse]

I drive a 2L Mk1 Vitesse Convertible and had trouble with the rear shock absorbers where the compressed length was to long.

Regards

Paul

[Pete Lewis]

+1 for a courier spring and 1" block  brilliant ( having tried a de cambered and a swinger disaster )

but thats not where we are 

has anything changed from its original set up     was it ok before the rebuild?

start with undo and retight all pivots with the car on the deck

check the rear toe in    ...does the camber change going in reverse  of forwards ???

Pete

 

[Colin Lindsay]

Best thing to check is on the road with a driver and maybe a passenger; see what angle the wheels take whilst actually driving. If you set them to what you think is a good driving camber, whilst they're parked and unladen, they'll be too far adjusted when you get weight in the car and start to drive. 

[daverclasper]

On 25/02/2021 at 08:25, clive said:

The courier spring is much stronger, but also flatter. I fitted one to a herald estate with a 1" lowering block, and it handled like it was on rails.

Surprised they haven't remanufactured those, as a "worthwhile" upgrade.? 

[Clive]

16 minutes ago, daverclasper said:

Surprised they haven't remanufactured those, as a "worthwhile" upgrade.? 

Bill Davies did, I bought the last one.

But it is the usual issue, a retailer doesn't want to get a batch of 10? or so made up and then sell one every 4 months. I expect people can contact one of the springmakers (Owen springs make most of them I think) and get one made up.  Hopefully it would be made correctly.

Incidentally replacement springs not being correct is not just our cars. Was out exercising with a friend on Friday, he has just put what were supposed to be a set of std length/rate springs on his sierra cosworth. He did question the supplier as it had less coils than originals and free length was different, byt he was assured they would be correct. Fitted, rears are an inch too low, fronts and inch to high.  NOT a happy customer (Although he is very pleased with the Koni shocks, that was my influence) 

[PeteH]

Like clive, I suspect the only way is to go to the "horses mouth" so to speak and give a specification?. It will be interesting to see what the "kit of parts" (13/60) will drive like with the "swing" rear end is like ultimately.

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

well a  reputable swinger kit on my vitesse saloon was a ever sagging rolly polly disaster ended up with short shocks and down just continued till

10 deg neg camber \oo/    

and shocks bottomed out  hence fitting the courier ( also from Bill davies) to get a ride quaity and on rails handling 

neve want to see a swinger ever again 

Pete

[NonMember]

The swinger on my Vitesse is fine - handles well, sits about right height-wise and doesn't seem excessive on body roll. The one on the Spitfire is a tad saggy but then it was second-hand from Stoneleigh many years ago.

[PeteH]

I fully expect it will be "suck it and see". then go from there. Can you get 1cwt bags of sand anymore?.

Pete

[68vitesse]

14 hours ago, PeteH said:

I fully expect it will be "suck it and see". then go from there. Can you get 1cwt bags of sand anymore?.

Pete

Probable to heavy under health and safety.

Did place an order with Bill Davies for a courier spring but he didn't have sufficient to get a batch made before he ceased fully trading.

Regards

Paul

[Colin Lindsay]

I must admit to missing Bill, he had some great products.