Iain T Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 Gets too toasty for me at summer when in the inevitable traffic jam. I hate watching water temp gauges! The smaller Spal fan nearly worked but not powerful enough. This 1 inch bigger more powerful fan has 1.5 times the suck but without the pump mod I just can't fit it without cutting a lot of the fan casing away. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 11 hours ago, Mjit said: I'm sure those same critics glossed over the fact that mechanical distrubutors probably can't even make the 16 curve mark - and even then wouldn't be able to hit those same points as quickly or consistently as the 123. Sure, all true, but still not completely useful if none of the selectable curves hits the points you want/need. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 23, 2021 Report Share Posted March 23, 2021 4 hours ago, Iain T said: Gets too toasty for me at summer when in the inevitable traffic jam. I hate watching water temp gauges! The smaller Spal fan nearly worked but not powerful enough. This 1 inch bigger more powerful fan has 1.5 times the suck but without the pump mod I just can't fit it without cutting a lot of the fan casing away. Iain It is perfectly acceptable to get above the centre of the gauge at times of stress....... I have a mechanical gauge calibrated in degrees in mine and though I don't like to see it, it's not uncommon to see 105ºC on it. Sitting in traffic it has to be a hot, hot day to get that far (Andorra and Nice being two of the more memorable examples) but it doesn't seem to go any higher and has never actually boiled over. The other thing that gets it there is climbing Alpine passes while stuck behind something slow. Same applies though, never actually boiled over and an all-time high of 108ºC seen. It will dump water into the overflow tank shortly after switching off in those circumstances. It is a standard cooling system apart from an electric fan switched by the ECU. Forget what size (10"?) but it just fits without any chopping. No room for anything bigger. Nick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 12 hours ago, Nick Jones said: Forget what size (10"?) but it just fits without any chopping. No room for anything bigger. Nick Mine's 12"....just saying! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 38 minutes ago, Ian Foster said: Mine's 12"....just saying! is this Dougs alternative forum !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 I also have a degree calibrated gauge and sitting in a motorway queue I get all twitchy when it gets up to 100C and don't know when it's going to stop! Plus to alleviate my paranoia I have the heater and fan on so I'm also toasty and mildly moist myself🥵. The new Spal is a 12" but won't fit easily without the pump mod. I'm not saying I couldn't get it to fit if I cut some of the fan casing away but if EP can do their magic and refurb the pump it's the best solution. If only I could fit aircon! Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avivalasvegas Posted March 24, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 Just got back from a day on the rolling road at ATSpeedracing (thanks for that referral - the guys were absolutely brilliant and exemplify "there's no school like the ol' school!") They were absolutely adamant against the 123 systems and went through several examples you just don't read about. The chap who worked on my car looked like he was in his 60s and had the table manners of Basil Fawlty. This is why I believed every word and retained my magnetronic equipped Lucas 22D6. After 3 hours of replacing springs, modifying needles and tuning the distributor, the car was tuned for drivability (vs. peak power) and it's safe to say the car has been transformed. So much smoother and feels much more sprightly at speeds < 60 mph. Torque curve showed steady through the rev range with power continuing to build all the way to the redline thanks the extremely aggressive Camshaft (290 degrees 35-75-75-35 lift of 405-415 th) the previous owner installed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 3 hours ago, Iain T said: I also have a degree calibrated gauge and sitting in a motorway queue I get all twitchy when it gets up to 100C and don't know when it's going to stop! Plus to alleviate my paranoia I have the heater and fan on so I'm also toasty and mildly moist myself🥵. The new Spal is a 12" but won't fit easily without the pump mod. I'm not saying I couldn't get it to fit if I cut some of the fan casing away but if EP can do their magic and refurb the pump it's the best solution. If only I could fit aircon! Iain Ive got a Spal VA10-AP50_C-61A on my Vitesse which has a maximum housing diameter of 335mm and draws just over 12A. Its seems sufficient for the job and has gone in without being cut although I have done away with the original mechanical fan boss on the front pulley... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTV8 Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 2 hours ago, avivalasvegas said: After 3 hours of replacing springs, modifying needles and tuning the distributor, the car was tuned for drivability (vs. peak power) and it's safe to say the car has been transformed. So much smoother and feels much more sprightly at speeds < 60 mph. great news, glad you are happy with the outcome - nice job! ......... Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 54 minutes ago, johny said: Ive got a Spal VA10-AP50_C-61A on my Vitesse which has a maximum housing diameter of 335mm and draws just over 12A. Its seems sufficient for the job and has gone in without being cut although I have done away with the original mechanical fan boss on the front pulley... That's the one I'm putting in now, I've also taken the crank fan off. I and an experienced mechanic have both tried to fit it but it hits the pump when positioned to miss the crank pulley. Perhaps my engine is 10 or 20mm forward than yours although there isn't that much movement in the engine mounts or the Bastock uprated rad sits further back. Whatever the reason it ain't not goin' in wivout pump or fan casing mods. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjit Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 18 hours ago, Nick Jones said: Sure, all true, but still not completely useful if none of the selectable curves hits the points you want/need. Nick Exactly the reason I've got MegaJolt on my car! Having been through a couple of rolling roads (pre-MJ) I finally found one who actually looked at what my car needed, rather than just tuning for 'best power' and leaving me needing 2,500RPM to pull away from stationary! He found my car wanted lots of static advance for low RPM, increasing through the mid range but critically then needing less at higher RPM - and you just can't do that with a mechanical dizzy. The old 123 wouldn't have helped with that but one of the more recent programmable ones might. MegaJolt certainly helped though as you just sit theere on the RR at X RPM/Y load and tap the advance up/down while watching the RR readout, pushing to peak power, then knocking back slightly (to avoid issues when all you can get is 95RON). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 1 hour ago, Iain T said: That's the one I'm putting in now, I've also taken the crank fan off. I and an experienced mechanic have both tried to fit it but it hits the pump when positioned to miss the crank pulley. Perhaps my engine is 10 or 20mm forward than yours although there isn't that much movement in the engine mounts or the Bastock uprated rad sits further back. Whatever the reason it ain't not goin' in wivout pump or fan casing mods. Iain When you say 'crank fan' you mean also its boss with the 4 screw holes (this probably meant you needed a new shorter pulley bolt and large washer as well)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 It clears the crank bolt etc I only have a problem with the water pump. I assume the one I have is the standard pump, I have no idea if they vary in length. Bit of a thread drift here, when EP get back to me I'll post on Cooling. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 ok but Ive got the deepest part of the fan (motor) near the reduced crank pulley bolt so that the thinner bit gives more clearance by the water pump... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 I have the fan with the flat on the fan rim horizontal under the rad top and as far left as it can go ie it's at the top left as I look at the rad from the engine. It's only taped on as a trial and I'm making some brackets to fit on the threaded stud on the side of the rad and underneath the mounting bracket. Made some cardboard tryouts and looks ok. I have the 4 Spall mounting brackets with arms that I will use to fix to the new rad brackets. 🤞 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 Mine is fixed through the fins but the flat base of the fan rests on the rad bottom tank. Then the centreline of the fan and crank pulley are roughly aligned however I have got the radiator as far forward as possible (almost touching the front valance top lip) and possibly leaning forwards a bit to increase water pump clearance. I remember putting putty on the rad cap to check its clearance to the bonnet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 24, 2021 Report Share Posted March 24, 2021 I'll try that fit tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 25, 2021 Report Share Posted March 25, 2021 The engine mount brackets are slotted, so you might be able to shuffle the engine back a little to help your cause. You can file the slots out a bit too. On 24/03/2021 at 09:10, Ian Foster said: Mine's 12"....just saying! Huh. Show off..... 😛 I’m going to have to measure it now..... On 24/03/2021 at 15:14, Mjit said: Exactly the reason I've got MegaJolt on my car! Having been through a couple of rolling roads (pre-MJ) I finally found one who actually looked at what my car needed, rather than just tuning for 'best power' and leaving me needing 2,500RPM to pull away from stationary! He found my car wanted lots of static advance for low RPM, increasing through the mid range but critically then needing less at higher RPM - and you just can't do that with a mechanical dizzy. The old 123 wouldn't have helped with that but one of the more recent programmable ones might. MegaJolt certainly helped though as you just sit theere on the RR at X RPM/Y load and tap the advance up/down while watching the RR readout, pushing to peak power, then knocking back slightly (to avoid issues when all you can get is 95RON). Yup. All of this. Tuned the cruise areas of my PI ignition map (Megasquirt controlled coil pack) on an RR with speed hold. Amazing gains in torque. Afterwards it would romp along at 70mph on a whiff of throttle and manage upper 30s mpg. Really quick too. The RR operator drives and watches his dials and I sit along side tapping up the timing in the relevant bins until the torque peaks then back off a little. Takes under a minute per location. Mapped the whole thing in an hour, though to be fair, auto-tune already had the fuelling most of the way there, just the full throttle high rpm bits to do that you can’t get to on the road without crashing/prosecution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 13 hours ago, Nick Jones said: Huh. Show off..... 😛 I’m going to have to measure it now..... Best offer I've had for a long time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 12 hours ago, Ian Foster said: Best offer I've had for a long time! So I did measure it and it is actually 12”. fairly snug...... ...... but not hopeless. this helps.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Foster Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 11 hours ago, Nick Jones said: it is actually 12” That's much more impressive. On the GT6 a 12" Spal covers the whole width of the radiator, with the clipped edges of the fan surround sitting nicely on the radiator side frames. I thinned down the fan boss to get good clearance. (Epic thread drift BTW) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 I tried the 12" Spal positioned at the bottom left and it hits the crank bolt. I do have the correct Mk2 thin crank boss, the one with a recess for the crank. I also pushed the engine back as far as I could. I could machine a couple of mill off the front face and the bolt head but it would still be too close given the engine does move slightly. I spoke to EP and he said he's 90% sure he can use a Herald(?) pulley which is shorter and will hopefully give me enough clearance to fit the fan at the top left of the rad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Jones Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 The central bosses come in various thicknesses but you seem to have one of the thinner ones already. Herald pulley is entirely different and will not fit. Can you shuffle the engine back a bit? Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain T Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 Nick, before I do anything else I'll wait to see if EP can do their magic. He was very hopeful. There seems to be a lot more room in a GT6. Don't know if it's the Bastuck rad but I've pushed that forward so the brackets abutt the valance. I have tried angling the rad but it's still too tight for the bigger fan. He received the pump last Thursday so I'll chase him up Monday. Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 4 hours ago, Ian Foster said: That's much more impressive. On the GT6 a 12" Spal covers the whole width of the radiator, with the clipped edges of the fan surround sitting nicely on the radiator side frames. I thinned down the fan boss to get good clearance. (Epic thread drift BTW) The Spal fan Iain and myself have is a little deeper than that model. I think it would go in the same location as in the photos but would possibly close the distance to the pulley bolt by half... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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