Vitesse door hinges to A post

[Robin]

Does anyone know how the door hinges bolts are attached to the A frame on a Vitesse (or Herald)? Is there a captive nut within the A frame itself? If there is and the thread is stripped how do you get access other than cutting away the A frame metal from inside the car?

[GFL]

There is a shaped Threaded Captive Plate, if striped you can tap up the next size or go metric.

The original threads are 5/16" UNF (1/2" AF spanner) you can re-tap 3/8" UNF (9/16" AF Spanner) but you may have to drill out the hinge holes slightly

M10 might be the Best Metric size but not 100% sure on this?

Regards

[Robin]

19 minutes ago, Gary Flinn said:

There is a shaped Threaded Captive Plate, if striped you can tap up the next size or go metric.

The original threads are 5/16" UNF (1/2" AF spanner) you can re-tap 3/8" UNF (9/16" AF Spanner) but you may have to drill out the hinge holes slightly

M10 might be the Best Metric size but not 100% sure on this?

Regards

Thanks Gary - so if you tap up can you still make adjustments or is it fixed?

[Pete Lewis]

if you drill out the hinge holes to suit the oversize this wont affect  the plate  which will still move about for some adjustment 

the plate is not as thick as a nut so they strip easy if overtightened 

torqure is reduced to 16/18 lbft  where as a std nut would be more 19/21 lbft

so hand tight , thats a nip and a short turn 

Pete

[Robin]

2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

if you drill out the hinge holes to suit the oversize this wont affect  the plate  which will still move about for some adjustment 

the plate is not as thick as a nut so they strip easy if overtightened 

torqure is reduced to 16/18 lbft  where as a std nut would be more 19/21 lbft

so hand tight , thats a nip and a short turn 

Pete

Hi Pete - so do the bolts just go through the threaded plate i.e  the bolts don’t have a nut on the end?

[Colin Lindsay]

33 minutes ago, Robin said:

Hi Pete - so do the bolts just go through the threaded plate i.e  the bolts don’t have a nut on the end?

Yes, they screw into tapped threads in the plate; no nut - you couldn't get access in behind anyway without drilling holes through the bodywork.

(Colin, not Pete.)

[Pete Lewis]

yes agree with colin  access is not easy , i have also suggested a hole saw to align and poke a socket with a nut inside through to fit  the end of the bolt 

access to the caged plate is not easy 

Pete

 

 

[Robin]

On 20/04/2021 at 21:21, Pete Lewis said:

yes agree with colin  access is not easy , i have also suggested a hole saw to align and poke a socket with a nut inside through to fit  the end of the bolt 

access to the caged plate is not easy 

Pete

 

 

Quick update...

 

As Pete mentioned - It looks like someone has has cut a small access hole in the A frame at the bottom which was hidden by the footwell side carpet. They've also drilled through the inner casing at the bottom and attached nuts to the oversized bolts. So, three questions..

1. I'm assuming that by attaching bolts to the nuts it removes the ability to adjust the bottom door hinge?

2. If the captive plate has been tapped to take a bigger bolt, does it still need a nut on the end or can I remove them and retain some adjustment?

3. Is it possible to replace the captive plate?

[Colin Lindsay]

There's a small hole in all of the A-posts, just off centre towards the bottom - put there by the factory. The captive plates are fitted to the rear of the outer panel before it's all welded together, so can't be accessed without cutting more holes or splitting the welds! Not easy... so replacement is a major job. If someone has already cut holes then that's a big bonus.

If you can manage to get a nut onto the bolt it will grip the bolt, same as the captive plate did, and so still allow the same range of movement. The entire plate moves, not just the bolts as if they were in slotted holes. If you tap out the plate to take a (slightly) larger bolt eg metric, the plate should now still grip the bolt as it would have originally so no need for a nut.

 

[Robin]

27 minutes ago, Colin Lindsay said:

There's a small hole in all of the A-posts, just off centre towards the bottom - put there by the factory. The captive plates are fitted to the rear of the outer panel before it's all welded together, so can't be accessed without cutting more holes or splitting the welds! Not easy... so replacement is a major job. If someone has already cut holes then that's a big bonus.

If you can manage to get a nut onto the bolt it will grip the bolt, same as the captive plate did, and so still allow the same range of movement. The entire plate moves, not just the bolts as if they were in slotted holes. If you tap out the plate to take a (slightly) larger bolt eg metric, the plate should now still grip the bolt as it would have originally so no need for a nut.

 

Thanks Colin - that's really good to know.

[t-stag]

Continuing saga of my body off chassis Vitesse restoration.

2 bolts hold each hinge to the door, but the door doesn't come off so there must be something else holding the hinge on.

So remove the 3 bolts holding the hinge to the A Post. A bit concerned that the plate inside the A Post might move downwards.

Is this plate retained somehow?

Steve

[Pete Lewis]

there is a countersunk set screw hinge to door you have not found yet 

and the plate in the A post is held in a cage 

Pete

[PeteH]

I have refurbished a stripped thread by running weld into the failed thread and drilling and re-tapping 3/8" UNF.

Pete

[Roger K]

I would try a helicoil to keep the thread size original.  You might not be able to tap the helicoil tang out but that probably doesn't matter.

[Peter Truman]

You can get different length Helicoil/Recol's I've used the shortest to refurb a couple of the bolt holes in the hinges on my Vitesse. 

[Robin]

8 hours ago, Roger K said:

I would try a helicoil to keep the thread size original.  You might not be able to tap the helicoil tang out but that probably doesn't matter.

So does the helicoil go into the captive plate thread?

[Roger K]

I have placed helicoils into captive plates with success.  They're not really designed for them, but if placed carefully will give a stronger thread than the original.

[PeteH]

10 hours ago, Robin said:

So does the helicoil go into the captive plate thread?

The helicoil kit comes with a Tap, which is the same thread form and pitch but a larger dia. the "coil" is inserted which restores the original thread size. Plenty of info:- https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Fitting+hellicoils 

The Captive plate is only (I estimate) 3/16" (5mm) thick. Which even with a fine thread does mean that care is required when fastening the bolts.

Pete