Has my fuel lost it’s oomph!

[Adrian]

Thanks for getting back to me. The tank is effectively new, no debris at all. The dizzy is a new electronic Lucas upgrade from the club shop. The coil is fairly new 4 yrs with very minimal use due to rebuild although it is a generic coil, nothing special. HT leads new.

not really sure how to go about the wiring testing as it’s all worked fine in the garage.

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

there was some thought the coil was block mounted to act as a cooling heat sink  

or was it just the way the engine line tested the unit ...    needs a canley ghost 

Pete

Maybe ease of assembly at the factory? Engine would be complete with coil, HTs and dizzy less to fiddle with when fitted?

[Pete Lewis]

the coil is marked  + pos   and -  neg      make sure the dizzy is connected to the neg    and the white ign feed to the + pos 

older coils had  sw switch wire  and CB contact breaker markings 

back to front gives all sorts of problems 

Pete

[Adrian]

Had a quick look and black from dizzy -ve coil and +ve red dizzy to +ve coil as well as yellow ballast resistor.

[PeteH]

Early Car`s too, would have been positive Earth?, would they not?. IF they had been changed to Alternator, and Neg Earth, the perhaps "forgotton" dizzy would now be wrongly wired?.

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

Adrian     what electronic are you using  as  you have a ballast ign feed  the voltage  may be below the operations rage of the unit 

and there could be youre problem , link a 12v feed to the red lead  from somewhere and try it 

many have a range of 6 -18v and a balasted feed can be below that  

Pete

[Adrian]

Hi

 

I've got 12 V from the distributor to the Coil and 12 v from the ballast (just with the ignition turned to live, not engine running)

I'm tempted to run it and idle to heat up to get the redex dosed 75% new fuel going through the system, get to temperature and see if that might help. I can't find my reciept for the distributor so have asked Angie if she might have a record of it.  

 

[Pete Lewis]

with no load a ballast system will show the cars base voltage  it needs to be energised to show the ballast drop voltage of around 6v

 

Pete

[Adrian]

Ok tried it and the numbers were everywhere as attached at the coil. I was expecting an even 6 and 12, roughly so really have no idea. The coil is an intermotor 1.5 coil for ballasted resistor cars (model No 11070-B). 

[Pete Lewis]

sorry cant open that on me laptop  but as a ballasted system with a correct coil   you may be below the operational voltage of the leccy unit 

does the unit give its voltage range ???????

Pete

[Adrian]

As in the distributor? It had better be right because is was ordered through the club and wasn’t cheap! The voltage range was highly variable from 0.2 up to 12 then maybe 8 and numerous stops up and down in between!

[Pete Lewis]

so was this a aldon dizzy or a H &  H with  who's electronic fitted ??

i was after the voltage the data sheet might have on it  not whats going on in the car 

if its aldon theres aldon 1 and aldon  II  

aldon 1 used to say works on 6 to 18 volt   , so can be very unhappy on a ballasted ignition  thats where im trying to get too /or discount 

Pete

 

[Adrian]

I found an email from Angie confirming it’s a H+H. I can remember at the time of ordering that I has to say ballasted or not.

[Pete Lewis]

to really make sure its compatible with ballast is give H & H a call  

https://www.h-h-ignitionsolutions.co.uk/technical.htm

I cant find anything on their website and some of it is  being renewed   and  under construction 

be nice to nail the answer for good 

Pete

[GrahamB]

On 04/06/2021 at 17:52, Adrian said:

Ok tried it and the numbers were everywhere as attached at the coil

The voltage on a ballasted coil will be 12 V with the ignition unit  in the off state (equivalent to points open) falling to 6 V with the unit in the on state (points closed).  With the engine running, a digital volt meter will not be able to follow the rapidly changing voltage and will display apparently random numbers. With the ignition on but the engine not running you might be able to get sensible readings by slowly turning the engine over by hand; you certainly can do this with points.

I have run a separate 12 volt supply from the ignition switch to the electronics to ensure that the unit always gets a stable voltage.

[Pete Lewis]

many do as Graham has suggested  and run a dedicated 12v supply to the red wire

thats the best way of eliminating any supply variance or low voltages 

gets rid of the on going  we know the car is running a ballast but theres some uncertainty of if the dizzy electronics like it or not 

Pete

[PeteH]

Curiosity?. Looking at the Haynes (1982 print run) Vittesse/GT6 Manual. The Mk3 GT6 wiring diagramme shows item 7 as a Ballast Resister Wire With a colour code KW, no indication for "K" but W is white?. Is it possible, that you are feeding the ballast via a wire that already has "resistance" built in. The "full fat" 12V feed is from the solenoid, not the switch, using a W/Y feed for starting?.

Back when, Ford, with which I am more familiar, Used to incorprate the ballast wire into the actual loom, under the wrapping.

[Pete Lewis]

the ballast wire if built in was a white with a murky pink trace (thereabouts ) 

but a good call having both would make life an interestingly low HT .

Pete

[Adrian]

Hi all

Prior to any rebuild it was running fine so whilst a very good point regarding the ballast wire I don't think I have that. On closer inspection I have noted that the lower alternator input to the ballast was a little loose (but not completely floppy). I tightened it up and the car fired up nicely if a little uneven, I left it running till it got hotter than when I had the trouble and has not dropped off or missfired other than a little on the over run. I realise it may be different under load and that also the new fuel may have helped with a more even burn.

Very very useful information about the digital meter not reacting fast enough. The knowledge is building......slowly.

Could the looser connection and getting rid of the older fuel be the problem?

[Pete Lewis]

all these thing add up to help what ever is going on 

Pete

[Adrian]

As a minimum should I be seeing a constant 12v coming from the alternator to the ballast, or does that flicker around as well because it seems to be the latter in my case. Whilst the charge fault light is not lit could there be a fault in the alternator if I don’t see 12v?

[PeteH]

By all means pick holes in this. (I`m at the rag end of a bottle of Red). However. IF you are seeing 12V, other than with the start key in the cranking position. You must be feeding the coil 12volts under running conditions?. My take is that you feed the Input side of the Ballast Resister 12V, (or alternator output, which could be 13+V) and the output side should be (nominally)6V?.

Pete

[Adrian]

Yes my understanding as well, no red wine just a pint full of ignorance. Alternator output was definitely not 12 or even close, again jumping all over the place and typically appeared 1 or 2 occasionally 11, etc. My expectations were a constant 12ish volts.

following Graham’s point I won’t see an accurate reading at the coil but would expect an even 12ish in and 6volts out of the ballast resistor unless of course the draw impacts resistor readings as well?

[PeteH]

2 minutes ago, Adrian said:

Yes my understanding as well, no red wine just a pint full of ignorance. Alternator output was definitely not 12 or even close, again jumping all over the place and typically appeared 1 or 2 occasionally 11, etc. My expectations were a constant 12ish volts

IF you are seeing less than about 13+Volts at the Alternator output. There is a possibilty that the alternator is part of the issue, A Battery will "normally" need to be 12.5volt`s or above in decent condition, Alternator output will be in excess of this, I See 14V regularly on my "modern", usually just after starting. Maybe what you are measuring with a running engine is the putput of a failing alternator?. As I said, I could be wrong, but there would IMV certainly be a case to check the condition of the Alternator?.

Pete

[Pete Lewis]

14.5 v is a pretty std alternator output 

checking at the coil is likely to give daft reading  with engine running as the circuit is constantly being switched earth

does the alt charge light actually work ???

if its failed you wont get any charge as its this that triggers the regulator cut in voltage   no light   no voltage 

Pete