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Mark B
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3 minutes ago, Iain T said:

I live in an apartment complex and we are willing to pay for EV charging points. Some companies will install foc but you pay higher unit rate. 

However I like hydrogen, I read Toyota are entering a hydrogen piston engined car in a race series. The engine doesn't drive the wheels but generates electricity. 

Iain 

Cannot quite get the logic of introducing another element into the Fuel to Motion equation?. Every stage incurs losses. IMV cutting losses is key to efficient use of energy.

Pete

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15 minutes ago, PeteH said:

Cannot quite get the logic of introducing another element into the Fuel to Motion equation?. Every stage incurs losses. IMV cutting losses is key to efficient use of energy.

Can't answer that. Perhaps they feel an engine is more easily recycled than an effin great battery? Toyota engineers must have done the sums. 

Iain 

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10 minutes ago, Iain T said:

Can't answer that. Perhaps they feel an engine is more easily recycled than an effin great battery? Toyota engineers must have done the sums. 

Iain 

If they are going racing with it, then the fuel efficiency is a lesser consideration I suppose, as you say they would have done their sum`s one would imagine?. It just seemed curious that they would consider not Hydrogen fueling an ICE directly conected to the drive train?. I sailed on Diesel Electric Ships and their Specific Fuel Consumptions where always greater than straight diesel.

Pete

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1 hour ago, Badwolf said:

As for the the actual fuel, may I suggest (and expect to be shouted down by everyone), that the future fuel should be water. Feed it into a 'black box' where it gets electrolysed by electricity generated by the car or initially from a battery, the water is split into hydrogen and oxygen which is fed into a modified ICE. Minimum charging points, lower pollution, cheap fuel......right chaps/chapesses, rip the idea to bits!!!

You asked for it 😁 Water is already in short supply around the world for human consumption & agriculture . . .😜

I like the idea of hydrogen for combustion engines. There are tests at the moment with hydrogen powered buses. The big breakthrough is efficient production. Would methane be any good? I live in a rural area and the fields are full of 4 legged methane producers 😖

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16 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Would methane be any good? I live in a rural area and the fields are full of 4 legged methane producers 😖

 😁  Are the cities not full of two legged ones...especially after a curry (if you can get one at the moment)?? "Boom Emoji" by boomboomboom | Redbubble

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Here's a sort of 'moral maze' type question.

Firstly, how long does it take to charge up an EV from nearly flat and how many kwt of electricity and therefore how much does it cost

Secondly, and this happened to a close friend of mine, how do you cope with a situation when a relation (daughter in law in this case) arrives with a nearly flat EV battery and asks can she plug in her car to charge it up. It's bad enough when someone plugs in their mobile phone without actually having the courtesy to ask but to assume that you will charge up a car, that's a different matter. Yes I am old school for that sort of thing but....!!???

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21 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

Here's a sort of 'moral maze' type question.

Firstly, how long does it take to charge up an EV from nearly flat and how many kwt of electricity and therefore how much does it cost

Secondly, and this happened to a close friend of mine, how do you cope with a situation when a relation (daughter in law in this case) arrives with a nearly flat EV battery and asks can she plug in her car to charge it up. It's bad enough when someone plugs in their mobile phone without actually having the courtesy to ask but to assume that you will charge up a car, that's a different matter. Yes I am old school for that sort of thing but....!!???

Plugging into a 13A plug will cost max approx 50p/hr, assuming charging at 13A. The solution is to make sure the visitor doesn't stay too long.

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24 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

Firstly, how long does it take to charge up an EV from nearly flat and how many kwt of electricity and therefore how much does it cost

There's an app for that:

https://www.inchcalculator.com/electric-vehicle-charging-time-calculator/

24 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

Secondly, and this happened to a close friend of mine, how do you cope with a situation when a relation (daughter in law in this case) arrives with a nearly flat EV battery and asks can she plug in her car to charge it up. It's bad enough when someone plugs in their mobile phone without actually having the courtesy to ask but to assume that you will charge up a car, that's a different matter. Yes I am old school for that sort of thing but....!!???

Most EVs will not plug straight in to a wall socket. You need what is essentially a portable power wall with the relative adapters. I know of e-Go and Juice Booster. They have circuitry built in to avoid fires and you can lower the amps so that it doesn't draw full power if you don't want it to. They also can tell what the maximum draw is that is allowed and don't go over that.

Price is totally up to whatever you pay for power but you should know what you pay per KW/hr ....

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9 minutes ago, DVD3500 said:

Most EVs will not plug straight in to a wall socket. You need what is essentially a portable power wall with the relative adapters. I know of e-Go and Juice Booster. They have circuitry built in to avoid fires and you can lower the amps so that it doesn't draw full power if you don't want it to. They also can tell what the maximum draw is that is allowed and don't go over that.

Interesting......In my ignorance, I had assumed that you just ran a heavy duty lead from the car to the power point. That makes on street charging even more entertaining. Now I am sure that I will stick to a petrol car for as long as possible or at least until this is all sorted out. Reading through all of this, and what a mammoth thread drift it has become, the whole situation defies any sort of logical solution without a shed load of money being spent by someone, somewhere, and then will it become the Betamax/Phillips Video 2000 of the day?

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I still have a record player, cassette player, 3 VCRs (and American and 2 European), 2 DVD players (All region and Region 2), 2 Blu Ray players (One all region for DVD playback, other Region 2/B)....

I am all about late adoption...

Frankly, what I find frustrating about EVs is I want to know "where the brains are". I know every inch of my cars and how they work. EVs are very much for "whatever" Point A to Point B drivers and I find trying to figure out the technical aspects frustrating.

I used to build computers and networks so I am not non-techie but I am just now figuring this stuff out myself (the cable thing I only discovered about 2 weeks ago, I had also assumed you could plug anywhere up until then...)

It is a learning curve and it changes fast...

On methane: Didn't all teh cars in "Beyond Thunderdome" run on methane from pigs?

 

 

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3 hours ago, Iain T said:

There's a few people working on H/E endurance race cars, including the ACO (Le Mans 24hr) - http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/03/26/hyundai-partner-with-forze-hydrogen-racing.html and http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/02/03/greengt-to-provide-spec-powertrains-for-2024-le-mans-hydrogen-cars.html.

In fact I think the (pre-Covid) plan would have seen work either started/starting in July on the rebuilding of the Le Mans garage complex/grandstand, part of which would see hydrogen supplies piped to every garage as it's certainly where they see the future for anything over the about 4-5 laps a Tesla road or Formula E race car would give you (racing, so flat out remember).

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Oh boy is this thread heating up my grey cells!

Have electric car manufacturers standardised cables/plugs/sockets? some 1 cable will fit all?

Of course should a UK electric car driver wish to tour Europe they would need to pack an adaptor should they want to charge from a socket, mind you nothing new there as you need one to charge phones etc from the mains. 

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I don't mind investigating "new" (some not so new) idea's and would like nothing better than to see an integrated transport system, But the cynic in me can see all the competition for top dog just as happened in the mobile phone world 2 distinct systems neither of which talk to each other. Computers same issue M-S vs. Apple, and virtually non compatible without "work-a-rounds". How many differing charging systems?. Lets face it nothing is cross platform without a (for want of a better word) "Bodge". Metric v Imperial fasteners, the list is endless. E-V`s will be exactly the same, with the inevitable end result that "X" batteries won't run "Y" cars and vice versa and will be at different Voltages. No chance then of swappable power packs. Charging units?. Some will be high voltage, some "domestic" voltage 60Hz or 50Hz. 115 or 240V. Or even some yet to be decided "compromise" negotiated by a committee of  "public servants" between tea breaks. While the world procrastinates I will stick to my Diesel Motorhome and 3 Petrol car's.

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3 hours ago, Badwolf said:

Secondly, and this happened to a close friend of mine, how do you cope with a situation when a relation (daughter in law in this case) arrives with a nearly flat EV battery and asks can she plug in her car to charge it up.

I had a total stranger drive up to the house and ask if he could use my wi-fi to send photos to a local newspaper - the annual band parade was on-going and as a reporter he had always done this with the permission of the previous owners in order to meet the deadline. It did put me in an awkward situation. 

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1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

had a total stranger drive up to the house and ask if he could use my wi-fi to send photos to a local newspaper - the annual band parade was on-going and as a reporter he had always done this with the permission of the previous owners in order to meet the deadline. It did put me in an awkward situation

New people in the apartment next door wanted to use our WiFi as there's wasn't ready. I told them no as it would leave me at risk. 

Iain 

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13 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

I had a total stranger drive up to the house and ask if he could use my wi-fi to send photos to a local newspaper - the annual band parade was on-going and as a reporter he had always done this with the permission of the previous owners in order to meet the deadline. It did put me in an awkward situation. 

I would be fine with that as I have a separate guest wifi network that isolates the home computer stuff from that network - I'm sure it could be bypassed - but then if I was that bothered I would not use wifi at all!

But giving them (Or the neighbour) access to the main wifi wouldn't happen!

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17 hours ago, DVD3500 said:

There's an app for that:

https://www.inchcalculator.com/electric-vehicle-charging-time-calculator/

Most EVs will not plug straight in to a wall socket. You need what is essentially a portable power wall with the relative adapters. I know of e-Go and Juice Booster. They have circuitry built in to avoid fires and you can lower the amps so that it doesn't draw full power if you don't want it to. They also can tell what the maximum draw is that is allowed and don't go over that.

Price is totally up to whatever you pay for power but you should know what you pay per KW/hr ....

The circuit in the 13A to EV cable is mostly for safety. There is a RCD to check for leakage and a relay to connect disconnect the live, neutral and earth from the car. There is also a digital cct and comms to the car, to tell the car how much current it can draw from the supply, but the 'lead' doesnt control that current just instructs the car maximum current draw. The digital comms must work otherwise the relays are not turned on.

this is useful if you want to charge from solar panels when you have a max of 3kW available so you can limit the current draw to just whats available from the solar panels (assuming its sunny and you are not using much power in the rest of the house).
My lead for our Golf GTE stopped working and I tried to fix it but failed but did give me a chance to see what was inside.

mike

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17 hours ago, Chris A said:

Oh boy is this thread heating up my grey cells!

Have electric car manufacturers standardised cables/plugs/sockets? some 1 cable will fit all?

Of course should a UK electric car driver wish to tour Europe they would need to pack an adaptor should they want to charge from a socket, mind you nothing new there as you need one to charge phones etc from the mains. 

I think there are a number of different cables and a definate incompatibility in chargers. So we are still in the VHS / Betamax / VC2000 stage.

There also has to be clever electronics in the charger to prevent damage or interference to the grid.

So you may well find you switch the charger on and it just doesn't. Could be a bit of a downer the next morning when you battery is still flat. I guess you have to go and find a charger else where and be a few hours late

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14 minutes ago, thescrapman said:

I think there are a number of different cables and a definate incompatibility in chargers. So we are still in the VHS / Betamax / VC2000 stage.

 

Arr wondered how long till that came into play. Grandad had the vc2000, if i remember you could turn over like a cassette but cost a fortune, i had a betamax not due to the better quality but as someone flogged me one for 50 quid, i also worked for grunwicks so got boxes of tapes really cheap. The vhs won cos they were cheaper and the tapes were longer. Can you see where this is going! Cheap car, longer distance on  charge.

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1 hour ago, Mathew said:

The vhs won cos they were cheaper and the tapes were longer.

Actually no.  VHS 'won'* because they realised how important the 'movie at home' market was going to be and signed exclusive deals with a number of the major film studios, moving the debate from "Which is better?" to "Which has most films?".  In the 80's if you were thinking of getting one of those new-fangled home video players and walked into your local hire shop you'd see 3 walls covered in VHS tapes with the latest blockbusters and one with some rather obscure/Sony films on Betamax...and when you walked into Rumbelows you walked past the Betamax players and picked up a VHS one.

* And 'won' is debatable.  Betamax was still being used in the TV industry back in the early 2000's when everyone was throwing out their VHS players and buying DVD at home.

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19 minutes ago, Mjit said:

Actually no.  VHS 'won'* because they realised how important the 'movie at home' market was going to be and signed exclusive deals with a number of the major film studios, moving the debate from "Which is better?" to "Which has most films?".  In the 80's if you were thinking of getting one of those new-fangled home video players and walked into your local hire shop you'd see 3 walls covered in VHS tapes with the latest blockbusters and one with some rather obscure/Sony films on Betamax...and when you walked into Rumbelows you walked past the Betamax players and picked up a VHS one.

* And 'won' is debatable.  Betamax was still being used in the TV industry back in the early 2000's when everyone was throwing out their VHS players and buying DVD at home.

Sorry just drawing from family and frends at the time decided on, my uncle had a video rental shop that he changed to a video rental (vhs) and when that was declining a flower shop!

Many old systems are still being used in industry and the panic slowly goes out as they breakdown and no spares exist! Suddenly new entire systems have to be bought.

Even though things are changing rapidly i think we have 10 to 15 years before worrying about petrol supply for our cars . Once solid state batteries are cheap and available on the market the 2500s may get converted.

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