Vitesse block leaking

[Joel]

Afternoon all

A quick run this afternoon (10 mins) saw a big puddle of water forming under the car in the garage. She leaks a bit but never from there!! I've attached a pic of the leak running down over the bottom drain valve but can't follow it any higher as the manifold is in the way. The temperature gauge reads normal, haven't run it without the right amount of coolant, not a noticeable power drop but a big puddle!  A fairly constant flow down the side of the block but the water in the drip pan seems pretty cool. Any ideas?

 

[johny]

Theres a core plug up there (you can just see the bottom of it in the photo) and it seems to line up with the flow. I think theyre also one of the most likely to fail☹️

[Peter Truman]

As Johny says there's a welsh/core plug immediately above the drain tap/plug.

Attached is a photo of a 6 cylinder 2 lt engine stripped and with no head/manifolds that show the orientation.

On your photo you can see the plug wet/weeping 

[Paul H]

I would give the other plugs a good test and a prod, don’t forget the one that’s only accessible by removing the gearbox cover . How do I know that , yes got the T Shirt 😱

Paul 

[JohnD]

More than likely as above, but that drain plug looks very wonky!   As if something has been dropped on it!   Is it straight?

JOhn

[Joel]

Thanks for the replies, chaps. It would appear that this is the only plug that needs replacing as the others look okay. What are my options, engine out and replace them all or can I just do the leaking one?

 

 

[johny]

I would do just that one because as I say it has a reputation for being the one to go. Of course you can always inspect it once out and make a decision based on the level of corrosion found. Also what is your coolant like when you drain the system? If its brown coloured and the radiator is full of debris its probably time to flush the entire system and yes replace the core plugs☹️ 

[Joel]

Sorry John, didn't reply to your drain plug question. It's a "artisanale" repair, done by the previous owner who snapped off the drain valve whilst over tightening. It appears to be a bit of brass that's been "percussively introduced" to the block. It doesn't leak and is one of those "on the list to replace" jobs!! I think that I need to replace the core plugs and rinse the block through as the coolant is a lovely gravy colour. I've seen a set of core plugs on Rimmer Bros for a few quid - are they easy to install? Threaded into the block?

[Joel]

Just  seen a video of how to change them so it would appear I'm not driving it this weekend!!

Thanks once again for all the advice

[Pete Lewis]

getting the old ones out can be a faf of digging holes and gorilla levering 

they just tap in , dont use a silicon sealer its too slippery these have to grip 

or they can push out under coolant pressure

as for a flush a couple of cupfulls of cheap washing soda crystals  run for a couple of days and flush out   works a treat and  Cheap

Pete

[Peter Truman]

Pete I've rebuilt a couple of engines and replaced the welsh plugs with the brass cup plugs, I would never use silicon, but after cleaning the plug seat just scraping a screw driver blade nothing more aggressive as I don't want to make the hole seat any bigger, then I've used a smear of Permatex Aviation gasket goo (brown black stinky stuff) to help the cup seal, never had a subsequent failure, Question for future reference right or wrong decision re using the old style Aviation gasket goo, irrespective I ain't taking them out again.

Whilst I had the welsh plugs out I did a serious clean of the block cooling passages removing years of built up rust esp between the bores and with special attention to the rear of the block. I used a short length of old Bowden cable in a high speed Dremmel drill the cable unwinds at the end and thrasth's around loosening the brown deposits to dust which is hoovered out with a 1/2in pliable plastic irrigation pipe extension the head was off so access from the top was also possible. Yes the engine was out of the car.

[ahebron]

Personally due to all the faff  getting to the welsh plugs on the 6 cylinder engine I would replace all of them and use brass ones with a smear of shellac.
You have no way of telling if they are original, the last 6 cylinder blocks are over 40 years old.
And before you put the manifolds back on top the water up to make sure none are leaking and let it sit overnight/weekend/week☺️

Adrian

 

[johny]

Think brass is a bit of overkill as our cars now get far better maintenance than they ever used to back in the day. The average cosseted classic now probably gets coolant changes about every 1000 miles🤣

[Joel]

Thanks for the advice Adrian. Still hesitating about whether to pull the engine and do all of them or remove the manifolds and do a "summer fix" to allow me to use it over the next few months. I think the former will win out.

[Joel]

Good morning all

Finally got around to changing the core plug that leaked and have had a go at removing the drain plug. The extraction bit I was using to remove the sheared brass plug has now snapped off in the hole through the plug and I'm at a bit of a loss where to go now!! 

Has anyone else come across this issue? I can't drill the thing out as the steering column is in the way. Is it worth buying an extension for the drill and having another go or is this the moment to pull the engine and do it properly?

 

Many thanks

 

Joel

[NonMember]

I've never had much luck with those "extraction bits". Unfortunately, now that it's sheared off, there's a bit of hardened steel in there which will make drilling out extremely hard. You probably don't have much choice but to pull the engine, I'm afraid. Unless it's forming a decent seal, and you can live with not being able to drain the block, in which case you could choose to just keep driving it until a better time for major work 😉

[Pete Lewis]

as a bodge to keep running till youre ready to attack it  would a good clean up and cap of chemi metal seal the leak for a short fix ???

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

If you want the work, then drill it out but if it's not leaking, leave it alone! It may look unsightly but only you really knows it's there, so as long as you can use the car reliably then keep it on the road for the warm weather and work ion the drain in the winter layup (if you have one!)

Do they still sell the stuff you used to put into the radiator to cure leaks? (Bars Leaks was one)

[JohnD]

Sorry to be a Jonah, but the smears of ?mastic sealant around the plug, and the VERY straight dribble down from it make me think you might have a crack.   A crack below that drain will be into the crank case, not the water jacket, so oil would come out, not rusty water, so that's good to see!

Clean it up thoroughly, inc. grinding off any paint,  and inspect after a run.    A dusting with flour may help visualise a leak, or you can buy crack testing sprays.

John

[Pete Lewis]

we added a Barrs leak pellet to very truck we built to solve new hose coolant seapages   they worked then (pre 93)

still got some on the shelf  , might try it in my tea   to improve the plumbing  Ha !

pete

[Peter Truman]

If I remember correctly our Series 3 XJ6 that we had mid 80’s it was recommended to use 2 Barr’s leak satchets/cans on a rad cooling system refill.

[DanMi]

That looks to me like the water has run down from above the drain point as you can see the brown stain line above and then going around both sides

[Badwolf]

Got some Wynne's rad seal from Halfrauds last year on one of those £5 off vouchers that they insist on sending me (£10 last week!!). Not tried it yet. I have a weeping/rusty joint at he waterpump return pipe junction and wanted to put off replacing the pipe incase it turns out o be a more horrendous job than I expect. May try putting it in sometime.

[Chris A]

Just seeing/hearing the term "rad seal" brings me out in a cold sweat. I know people use it but for me it really would be the final option or out and out emergency.

Someone I know here bought a Simca 1400 and had massive overheating problems, turned out a PO had got mad with rad seal apparently.

[Badwolf]

I believe that the old school solution was breaking an egg into the radiator, without the shell. The egg mixed into the water and the bit that leaked out set solid and sealed the hole. What a mess, and the smell!! Urban myth???