Just bought a Triumph GT6.... and I think I need a new head gasket :( (inc. pics!)

[HeebieGeebie]

2 minutes ago, clive said:

Just connect the gauge to the rocker box outlet to measure the pressure. 

But I am pretty certain the mayo is definitely down to overcooled oil, and a decent sized breather would solve any issues there. This isn't an engine that will rev to 7k (I presume, but some top end 2.5's can rev pretty high) so if in good condition it shouldn't have a high crankcase pressure

I've ordered the Thermostat you recommended, look forward to getting that in there.

The idea behind measuring the pressure was to compare catch can setups, do a before and after with current setup vs an improved setup. That would mean i couldn't use the rocker box outlet, so i was thinking of sacrificing the oil cap. Just thought it might be an interesting experiment.

[Pete Lewis]

agree with Clive but if you must 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324582385543?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=324582385543&targetid=1278447512547&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9046048&poi=1006833&campaignid=12689626702&mkgroupid=124353408922&rlsatarget=pla-1278447512547&abcId=9300529&merchantid=113745221&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvNOsnZSa8QIVhIjVCh2D7QGrEAQYASABEgLIlvD_BwE

[HeebieGeebie]

So I opened up the catch can and it's full of mayo, a bit concerning. It doesn't have anything inside, literally just a can. This looks like more than just condensation. What do you think? In any case i need to do a compression test as that may determine whether an engine rebuild is on the cards anyway. Also want get that oil thermostat fitted.

[Clive]

Not much in there. And the catch can will get a combination of water vapour, plus oil fumes/droplets. The perfect combination to make mayo. Usually you get more water. But to help it condense, you could stuff a stainless steel scourer in there. 

In all honesty, I think that once the oil thermostat is fitted, and the car has had a few good runs out, got nice and hot, all will be well.

I have not got a lot of faith in compression testers for HGF, unless it is s catastrophic failure. They do show if an engine is worn though. 

On another topic, did the previous owner pass on the specification of the engine? Cam, headwork etc? I would expect some changes from a std specification to warrant fitting the webers. If the engine has been worked, it could be a VERY rapid car, I was at Castle Combe where an ex-works 2.5 on webers (factory rally dept fitted them, they are original to that car) made an appearance. It was very quick, I would have a punt at 180ish bhp. Though in the GT6 that would make it very easy to munch a few diffs and gearboxes. 

[johny]

7 hours ago, HeebieGeebie said:

So I opened up the catch can and it's full of mayo, a bit concerning. It doesn't have anything inside, literally just a can. This looks like more than just condensation. What do you think? In any case i need to do a compression test as that may determine whether an engine rebuild is on the cards anyway. Also want get that oil thermostat fitted.

Dont forget even with a poor compression test result its worth retightening the head before a strip down...

[Nigel Clark]

There's no question an oil cooler without thermostat will over cool the oil on all but long runs in hot weather, or track day thrashing. It's likely the mayo is nothing more than condensation trapped in oil that has never got hot enough to drive off the water as vapour.

I wouldn't be worrying about head gasket replacement or an engine rebuild, at least not yet. Fit an oil thermostat in the lines to the cooler and give the car a few long fast runs then change the oil and filter (draining the oil while still hot). Clean any remaining mayo from inside the rocker cover and the catch tank and see whether the mayo reappears. My bet is it won't, unless the car only does short runs where the oil never gets time to warm up.

Nigel

[Nigel Clark]

Here's the oil thermostat on my 2.5 litre GT6.

Nigel

[Dick Twitchen]

8 hours ago, HeebieGeebie said:

whether an engine rebuild is on the cards

My advice is to slow down on this and follow all the other good tips above from what otherwise appears to be a pretty well put together car.  Clean the rocker and catch tank of mayo, top-up the rad overflow as per the handbook, do all the other pre-flight checks and take it for a decent drive.  No need to go far from home but up to temperature is the key and miles your friend.

Dick 

[HeebieGeebie]

Thanks all for the advice & the pics, I will try all of the above and keep you updated

[JohnD]

You may not want to do this, HG, but you have the opportunity, as I see from your OP pic of the left side of the engine that you have no mechanical fuel pump, a blanking plate on the openeng, and one that has a crank vent built in, currently blanked off with a bolt.  See the pic.

Run a hose from there up to a collector on the bulkhead, so that the hose is downhill all the way.    The collector is vented, and also connected to the rocker cover.

In this way, oil vapour, that has a higher boiling point than water, condenses out in the hose and runs back into the sump.   Water vapour continues up to the collector and is vented.     There is NEVER any residue in the collector.  Which is why it's not a 'catch can' as it catches nothing!

John

[Nigel Clark]

13 minutes ago, JohnD said:

You may not want to do this, HG, but you have the opportunity, as I see from your OP pic of the left side of the engine that you have no mechanical fuel pump, a blanking plate on the openeng, and one that has a crank vent built in, currently blanked off with a bolt.  See the pic.

Run a hose from there up to a collector on the bulkhead, so that the hose is downhill all the way.    The collector is vented, and also connected to the rocker cover.

In this way, oil vapour, that has a higher boiling point than water, condenses out in the hose and runs back into the sump.   Water vapour continues up to the collector and is vented.     There is NEVER any residue in the collector.  Which is why it's not a 'catch can' as it catches nothing!

John

Good call! That's what I did on my TR6. Before it would sweat oil from numerous locations when worked hard. Now the oil all remains inside the engine.

Nigel

[Pete Lewis]

ifyou are getting coolant in the oil its very very unlikely  dont want any thoughts  on a rebuild going on ,not till you have eliminated myths and sense

change the oil for a known brand  , give it some beans for a hours drive and see what you develope 

this mayo must not become a paranoid problem   you must use the car get it all up to temeperature for a long drive , but do change the oil first 

so you have a good starting point not keep running on the unknown and continually repeating what youve already found 

get the basics right is job one 

its a cheap fix

fit the cooler stat  or blank off /disconnect the  cooler  ,  

simplify and enlarge the breather system 

do you get any oil from the oil filler cap bleed hole ???

what cooling fan do you have ???    the old trick to fit a baffle infront of the rocker cover  to deflect cooling air   it works  !!!

Pete

[HeebieGeebie]

Hi all.

Firstly, I need to apologise for disappearing off the face of the earth. It's been 9 months since I last posted, where that time has gone I don't know. Time to give you an update on my car!

I took your advice and just drove the thing and enjoyed it. I got some good use out of it last year over the summer. I'll post some pics and vids below! I think the mayo was down to condensation as many of you suggested as it disappeared after some good drives. In October I had a small issue, one of the core plugs corroded through and was leaking coolant (see pic). That was a nice and easy fix thankfully! Pulling out the old plug and putting a new one in was much easier that I was expecting. I then flushed the coolant and replaced. My latest issue is a blowing exhaust so I will try and fix replace that soon as I'd like to get the car out again now spring has sprung!

 

[johny]

Looking good but be warned if one core plug has corroded other might follow suit and some are much less accessible....

[PeteH]

It is looking nice, and it does sound as if your have the basis for a "long term relationship" here, In which case an extra few bob for a decent Stainless Exhaust system?. Core plug`s are an "ocupational hazard" in older cars IMV. IF you have to remove the Engine because of core plugs, Do them ALL.

Pete

[johny]

+1 for the exhaust but original style?

[68vitesse]

Nice looking and sounding car, enjoy.

The 2L engine in my Mk1 Vitesse has a mixture of dished and bucket core plug, they are not interchangeable, your picture showed bucked types.

Regards

Paul.

[Clive]

24 minutes ago, johny said:

+1 for the exhaust but original style?

Don't think original style would suit the car at all. Far too restrictive.

A Phoenix single system would be the nice, simple option. I hope it has a 6 3 1 manifold (and not the hopeless 6 2 1 type)

That car needs to see  a track.... there is an excellent and resonably priced one coming up at castle combe 10th May, TR Reg organisers and they do a session for novices. My daughter did that in my spitfire, me in another session. Thoroghly recommended.

[Stratton Jimmer]

Interesting driver's door window. I rather like the look of it! Hoping to be at Castle Combe on May 10th but only as a spectator. Our North Wilts area meet is that evening so a few of us are provisionally planning on making a day of it.

[Steve P]

On 16/06/2021 at 08:49, Dick Twitchen said:

My advice is to slow down on this and follow all the other good tips above from what otherwise appears to be a pretty well put together car.  Clean the rocker and catch tank of mayo, top-up the rad overflow as per the handbook, do all the other pre-flight checks and take it for a decent drive.  No need to go far from home but up to temperature is the key and miles your friend.

Dick 

+1 for this, the Chichester bypass is perfect for a blast,i will be in Hayling next weekend, probably in my Herald.

Steve

[Clive]

7 hours ago, Stratton Jimmer said:

Interesting driver's door window. I rather like the look of it! Hoping to be at Castle Combe on May 10th but only as a spectator. Our North Wilts area meet is that evening so a few of us are provisionally planning on making a day of it.

I will see you there!

The cafe does a good breakfast. And I am pretty sure cakes.

[HeebieGeebie]

Thanks for the responses all, I think i'm going to bite the bullet and get the RG1304DELUXE 6-3-1 manifold as suggested by people above. That's with the twin tipped sports rear silencer. I'll order it, but have no idea when it might arrive its been on back order since January. Along with the DEI Heat Wrap, thats a comfortably over £1k... ouch.

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID008015

I prefer the look of the twin tips, rather than the large bore exhaust, plus if the large bore is as loud as my current system, i would need to fit a bolt on muffler to be allowed on Goodwood Circuit.

The source of my exhaust leak was at the 3 into 1 join as can be seen in the pics. The new system seems like it will be more durable in that area since there's no join there. I just pray that it will fit, since my car is a 2.5l  hence the block is a bit longer i believe and space is very tight between the block and chassis frame.

Those little wing nut bolts under the manifold as an absolute PITA to get to, i don't know how i'm going to get them tight when i put the new exhaust on.

Anything i should do while I have the intake & exhaust manifold off? I plan to give everything a bit of a clean, plus i'm going to paint the intake runners.

[Clive]

2 hours ago, HeebieGeebie said:

Thanks for the responses all, I think i'm going to bite the bullet and get the RG1304DELUXE 6-3-1 manifold as suggested by people above. That's with the twin tipped sports rear silencer. I'll order it, but have no idea when it might arrive its been on back order since January. Along with the DEI Heat Wrap, thats a comfortably over £1k... ouch.

https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-GRID008015

I prefer the look of the twin tips, rather than the large bore exhaust, plus if the large bore is as loud as my current system, i would need to fit a bolt on muffler to be allowed on Goodwood Circuit.

The source of my exhaust leak was at the 3 into 1 join as can be seen in the pics. The new system seems like it will be more durable in that area since there's no join there. I just pray that it will fit, since my car is a 2.5l  hence the block is a bit longer i believe and space is very tight between the block and chassis frame.

Those little wing nut bolts under the manifold as an absolute PITA to get to, i don't know how i'm going to get them tight when i put the new exhaust on.

Anything i should do while I have the intake & exhaust manifold off? I plan to give everything a bit of a clean, plus i'm going to paint the intake runners.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the rimmers 6>3>1 manifold has exactly teh same join as your current manifold, except it has no way of clamping up, the slits and bits of welded tube to clamp yours up are a typical "extra" added to try to seal the join. Besides, the manifolds rarely fit the cars well and usually need some "adjustment". 

I have done a few trackdays at goodwood. And the single big bore phoenix system/box seems to get through noise testing. In fact te six cylinder cars have less bark than 4 cylinder cars. But whatever exhaust you have fitted, for the first few trackdays (until you are 100% certain it will pass) take some sort of device to qieten the exhaust if needed. I carried a simple 1" wide strip of steel, bent to form a U (sharp bends though) to fit over the tailpipe and a U clamp so it would effectively block part of the tailpipe, a simple way to reduce noise. 

And a 2.5 and (mk2)2.0 use the same engine block. You can swap the crank and pistons to make a 2.0 into a 2.5. And some later 2.0 (with domed pistons) use the same head as the 2.5.

[Dick Twitchen]

Echo Clive's warning comment on manifold fit.  When I was restoring mine many moons ago I had three different 6-3-1 manifolds from Rimmers, none of them fitted correctly in a variety of places but fortunately Mark Field at Jigsaw came up trumps.  

Dick

[NonMember]

I've never fitted a 6-3-1 but the 4-2-1 on my Spitfire (from Canley, IIRC) needed adjusting with a proper 2" pipe bender to make it fit.