Spitfire Steering Wheel ‘Play’

[Jonah]

Hello, I have a 69 Mk3 Spitfire. Do you know if there is an acceptable amount of steering wheel ‘play’, I have about 1inch either way?

thank you 

julian 

[dougbgt6]

Julian

Important to find out where the play is, steering rack or knuckles or steering column or column joints or the steering wheel?

Doug

[Jonah]

Thanks Doug, that’s my afternoon sorted

[Pete Lewis]

thats a lot to think of the rack so as Doug says you need to do a physical check 

start with 

is the wheel secure on its shaft

is the collapsible sli joint set correctly (just below the end of the outer tube)

has the UJ lost is bushes (hidden under the suspn turret )

is the clamp bolt secure colun to stg rack

there is adjustment of the rack / and rack damper but do the simples first  let us know what you find 

get someone to wiggle the play and you  follow all the above back down to the rack 

Pete

[Jonah]

Pete

ive made some checks, the steering nut is tight on the shaft

the bushes are good, and the clamps are tight

the movement in the shaft transfers right down to the rack itself where the grease point is full of grease

ive attached a few pics that might help 

btw the steering feels very heavy but never having driven a spitfire before that may be how it’s meant to be

i haven’t checked the adjustment of the collapsible joint yet

best Julian 

[Pete Lewis]

that looks like you have a modern UJ fitted that dispells the UJ bushes of the olde originals

as the play is at the rack pinion i would remove the big nut under the grease plug and remove a shim or two ( theres astrong spring under it)

https://www.canleyclassics.com/?catalogue=triumph-spitfire-mkiii&diagram=triumph-spitfire-mkiii-steering

this is the rack damper and it keeps the rack in mesh with the pinion   its a easy fix take out too much and itgoes very stiff 

general spitty steering is quite light  what tyre pressures are using the book/manual spec is too low and most with modern tyres 

add 6psi , its a bit trial and see too soft heavy stg, too hard  poor ride /teeth chattering

but the figs for tyres from 50 year ago have changed a lot 

pete

[Jonah]

Pete you’re a star, that was an easy fix!

removed the shims and now no steering play at all

tyre pressures were 21psi so I’ve increased them to 27, now for a test drive

many thanks Julian 

[Clive]

19 minutes ago, Jonah said:

Pete you’re a star, that was an easy fix!

removed the shims and now no steering play at all

tyre pressures were 21psi so I’ve increased them to 27, now for a test drive

many thanks Julian 

Just check that you can freely get full lock in both directions. Racks tend to wear in the middle where they spend most of their time, much less at the ends, so if nice and"tight" in teh middle often too tight at the ends. You know what I mean........

[Jonah]

Thanks Clive I’ll check it tomorrow

[daverclasper]

2 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

this is the rack damper and it keeps the rack in mesh with the pinion   its a easy fix take out too much and itgoes very stiff 

Hi. Interested in this, as usually, removing shims, makes things looser/more play?.

Dave 

[Pete Lewis]

not here the screwed cap loads the spring the spring loads the slipper plunger the shims control the nip on the spring and the slipper 

this all pushes the rack into the pinion ,  so more shims equal a rattling good pinion 

there is also a small plastic plunger held under the passenger side rubber rack mount 

if narrow alloy mounts are fitted this plunger ends up in the road common fix was to fit a hose clip over it 

only ever  seen it in a moss parts listing   it stops rack end rattle on rough surfaces 

[AlanT]

Hi All,

Out of interest, what is an acceptable amount of backlash at the steering wheel? My resto has about 10mm. Would like to know before I start looking at the shims. UV joint and balljoints are new. 

Thanks

Alan

[Clive]

3 minutes ago, AlanT said:

Hi All,

Out of interest, what is an acceptable amount of backlash at the steering wheel? My resto has about 10mm. Would like to know before I start looking at the shims. UV joint and balljoints are new. 

Thanks

Alan

Zero backlash.

Check the lower column UJ, you may need to hold the bottom part somehow, as small movement equates to much larger movement at the wheel. It can be tricky to get the clamp bolts to tighten teh splines adequately. Worse, I had a solid UJ that had significant play, which meant another replacement (new one sourced from CHris Witor, who has an enviable reputation regarding honesty/quality)

You need an assistant, good light and good eyes to see what is happening.

Lastly, check the inner to outer column clamp by the pedals. But you can pull/push the wheel in/out if that is not tight enough.

[Pete Lewis]

the rack is made with the straight ahead portion giving less float  ( like none)   as you apply lock there will be some backlash show up so its quite important 

the rack is centralised when setting/checking backlash 

with 10mm ( at the  stg. wheel rim )  you could try remove a 0.002" shim ,  you dont want it to be dead  or you will constantly be correcting direction 

try just remove the big  damper nut and take a thin shim out and try it 

Pete

[AlanT]

Thanks. The clamps are good so I’ll look to remove a shim.

 

[Colin Lindsay]

On 15/06/2021 at 18:35, Pete Lewis said:

there is also a small plastic plunger held under the passenger side rubber rack mount 

if narrow alloy mounts are fitted this plunger ends up in the road common fix was to fit a hose clip over it 

only ever  seen it in a moss parts listing   it stops rack end rattle on rough surfaces 

https://jamespaddock.co.uk/damper-steering-rack145108

Paddocks have it; it's only used where there's an actual hole in the rack tube. Most of mine don't have one!

[Pete Lewis]

so you're  Ho Ho Ho Hole less

pete

[Colin Lindsay]

Bet you racked your brain for that one...

[daverclasper]

Happy New Steering Gear.

So, does removing shim/s, compensate for wear, or was it not set up correctly in the first place?

[Clive]

3 minutes ago, daverclasper said:

So, does removing shim/s, compensate for wear, or was it not set up correctly in the first place?

Either/both.

Plenty of recon racks are not great. And it can be tricky as the centre part of the rack wears most, so set it up nice there, and at the ends of lock it will be tight. So important to determine the tightest area, set it up for that and having to live with how the rest is. 

(For reference, the Dolomite Club does recon racks. Out of 30 sent in, only 2 were good enough to be reconditioned, the rest needed new racks (as in the bit inside) But many places are not as fussy, and probably use heavy grease so the racks feel good when supplied. 

[Colin Lindsay]

Does the horn work without the cable that should run from the grease nipple on the rack?

[Pete Lewis]

we have a nice local  mk11 spitty ...NO horn    no wire on the Uj no pencil no rack earth

so fight to refit all the bits  NO Horn ....whats this press toggle on the lower dash    Toot Toot    OMG !!!!!!

Pete