Herald heater fan

[jagnut66]

Hi,

The fan on my heater seems to be stuck somewhere between feeble and non existant.

It makes a noise but I'm not even sure that's a healthy one.

There certainly appears to be no current of air flowing out of the demist vents when it's running (or just making a noise🙄).

Are there any recommendations on here regarding improving on or replacing / upgrading it?

I intend to use the car in winter, so demist / hot air will be a must.

Many thanks,

Mike.

[Chris A]

Obvious question, have you checked that the ducting is connected and the flap directing the airflow is working?

The fan is, shall we say, less effective than a modern one. Many owners do replace the innards.

I only use my Herald in summer but if I use the fan it does makes difference, l have it set to blow hot air to my feet it then rises and will warm pecans my hands on a chilly day. This is in a convertible with the roof down.

Make sure the coolant is circulating properly, no pipes blocked and the heater valve works.

[jagnut66]

The ducting is connected but I will check the flap.

Your comment about the fan though, isn't surprising, I dare say back in 1970, 51 years ago, it was considered 'adequate'.

I would like to know what others had replaced the 'innards' with though?

I would like it to be able to clear the screen on a winters morning.

Reccomendations?

Best wishes,

Mike.

[ahebron]

Nissan Micra fans fit, unsure what year but search on this site will tell you.
I fitted one to my Vitesse but the car is not on the road.
I think I got the wrong one as I had to modify the airbox slightly, you can see it in the attached file.
I put a filter on the fan air intake, I assume it will confuse people.
Excuse the photo quality I took a photo of a video on my computer

Adrian

 

 

[Paul H]

I fitted a Nisan Micra fan to my Smiths box on my Vitesse to great effect , very noticeable improvement . The box does need slight modification to fit .

Paul

[PeteH]

Am I right in thinking there is a (later?)2 speed version that will fit also?.

The laws of thermodynamics of and heat transfer would indicate that the volume of air moved and the rate at which it passes over (through) the Matrix, (and it`s cleanliness) are what actually governs the quality of the output too?.

Pete

[68vitesse]

I fitted a two speed Triumph Dolomite fan to my Vitesse, no modifications to heater box needed, choice seems to be between greater volume of air at a lower temperature or a smaller volume of hotter air.

Regards

Paul.

 

[Badwolf]

Mike - Have you checked that the heater matrix is getting hot. As Chris says,if you have an airlock (well documented for various models on here) that will make your feeble fan problem even worse. It may also just be worth checking your connections to the fan in case of any corrosion acting as a resistor and reducing the power to the fan. I had that problem with my horns (don't go there!!!). Only gave a strangulated moan until the bullet connectors were cleaned/renewed.

[Chris A]

37 minutes ago, Badwolf said:

As Chris says,if you have an airlock (well documented for various models on here) that will make your feeble fan problem even worse.

Quite right, I also forgot to say that I had to remove the heater valve and blast through the matrix, in both directions to clear out all the crud, a hosepipe is a good fit. The valve was completely blocked with scale/crud so even though the mechanism looked to working from the outside nothing could flow through it.

[1969Mk3Spitfire]

I replaced the motor in my Spitfire. New, original are hard to find and expensive but I bought a used one from Canley. It’s a lot of fun to remove the box so worth taking the opportunity to clean and pressure test the heat exchanger and clean the valve. 

Mine will demist a fogged windscreen on a rainy day but I can’t imagine it would be comfortable on a cold winters day. Presumably, we were all more hardy fifty years ago.

[Badwolf]

When I had trouble with mine it was down to a mix of things:

First I connected the matrix to the mains water by hose to blow out any crud - an instant way of amusing your family when you realise the the water has to come out somewhere, you can imagine where!!

Secondly I refilled the system and followed Uncle Pete's advise for clearing air out of the system

Finally I realised, thanks to members here, that a T piece was fitted in the wrong register so there was little pressure to the heater matrix. Rotating it 90 degrees solved the problem. Some of my saga is here

https://forum.tssc.org.uk/topic/2623-back-to-the-past-nose-to-tail-1972-spitfire-mkiv-restoration-upgrades/page/9/i

I hope that it helps a little.

 

[Peaks]

Another obvious question; is the motor wired up correctly? If the positive and negative are swapped round then although the motor is running backwards it will still push out air, just at a greatly reduced volume. 

As others have said, it's well worth getting the matrix cleaned internally. Back flushing mine didn't make much difference so I paid a trusted radiator specialist to open the matrix up and rod through the tubes. I've got photos somewhere and I'll post them if I remember. 

I say trust radiator specialist as I have used one place (Arrow Radiators, I think they might be a franchise) and they were an expensive waste of time. The place I finally used has been in business for years and do heat exchangers for everything from diggers to air conditioning plants. They are called Ken Allen Radiators, and are located in Plymouth if you are in that area. 

As you've discovered, the heater valves also clag up and the only way I could cure that 100% was by fitting new valve; stripping and cleaning wasnt enough due to internal corrosion.

The result of all that though is a heater which is at least sufficient for a saloon or a convertible with the hood up. 

[Paul H]

18 minutes ago, Peaks said:

Another obvious question; is the motor wired up correctly? If the positive and negative are swapped round then although the motor is running backwards it will still push out air, just at a greatly reduced volume. 

As others have said, it's well worth getting the matrix cleaned internally. Back flushing mine didn't make much difference so I paid a trusted radiator specialist to open the matrix up and rod through the tubes. I've got photos somewhere and I'll post them if I remember. 

I say trust radiator specialist as I have used one place (Arrow Radiators, I think they might be a franchise) and they were an expensive waste of time. The place I finally used has been in business for years and do heat exchangers for everything from diggers to air conditioning plants. They are called Ken Allen Radiators, and are located in Plymouth if you are in that area. 

As you've discovered, the heater valves also clag up and the only way I could cure that 100% was by fitting new valve; stripping and cleaning wasnt enough due to internal corrosion.

The result of all that though is a heater which is at least sufficient for a saloon or a convertible with the hood up. 

I purchased a new heater matrix for my Vitesse , worth considering , about £80 4 years ago 

Paul 

checked and still the same price 

http://www.demisterman.co.uk/Triumph/Triumph Herald heater matrix.php

[Peaks]

Probably the best route Paul, to clean mine cost £40, and no doubt it still isn't as good as new. 

[jagnut66]

I am having a rad rebuilt with a modern core by Mansfield Radiators, he has been around a long time and does good work at a fair price.

He has rebuilt all of my Morris Minor rads in the past.

When it is ready I will drain and flush out the cooling system, then go right through it (replacing all the hoses with silicon ones bought from the club).

So at that point I will find out exactly what condition the matrix and fan are in......

Best wishes,

Mike.

[PeteH]

By Coincidence. I came accross the Heater valve while looking for something else entirely. (7 boxes of "bits" came with my 13/60). Having an hour or 2 "spare" yesterday I took it apart and cleaned it up. It works and opens/closes now as it should. Trying to be Methodical, I got the crate with all the bits of Heater in, intially to put My now working valve with them. Then decided to clean the Matrix and pressure test it. I put it in the sink with a solution of Citric acid, for a couple of hours, washed it off and conected a hose to Mains pressure seemed to be good, and I now have a clean acceptabe and usable Matrix👍 Now all I would like is a 2 speed fan?. The one I have works OK and should clean up. but 2 speeds might be nice?. Or a decent Reostat controller?. Idea`s?

Pete

[Colin Lindsay]

Have a look at this thread, it includes pics of my Smart-car fan motor.

[1969Mk3Spitfire]

On 26/06/2021 at 12:43, Badwolf said:

Secondly I refilled the system and followed Uncle Pete's advise for clearing air out of the system.

Can you, or Uncle Pete, please share a bit more detail, please?

How high? Wheels off the ground?

Start from cold with rad cap removed? Run until thermostat opens? Does it need any help by burping any hoses?

Any concern over engine lubrication at such an angle?

Appreciate the help.

 

[Badwolf]

Have a look here....

https://forum.tssc.org.uk/topic/7035-problem-filling-cooling-system-vit-mk1-2-litre/?tab=comments#comment-91965

Good luck with it. Air locks and dodgy plumbing can be a nightmare to sort out, as I found.

 

[jagnut66]

I like the Smart Car blower option and found this going cheap on eBay, looks to be the same model as in the post quoted above:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274830130644

So I have bought it, as an option. 

I've also noted the Nissan Micra fan, as both this and the Smart Car fan don't involve any 'butchery' of the original heater unit. 

Best wishes,

Mike.

[Rutty]

Have you taken the heater matrix out of the heater box. I found mine had 50 years of crud sitting on top of the matrix restricting the air flow. What air did go through mainly went round the edge as foam seal had perished. Also worth pointing out there is no foot well only setting. Its either off, footwell and demist or demist only.  

Mark

[jagnut66]

Not yet but it will come under scrutiny and if too far gone I will take it to Mansfield Radiators to replace the matrix.

Best wishes,

Mike.

[jagnut66]

The heater matrix is out and its a rusty mess, surprised it wasn't actually leaking.

Probably too blocked up to leak................

Anyway that and my old leaky radiator will be taken to Mansfield Radiators for recoring tomorrow.

To add to my woes one of the bolts (thought they would have used studs and nuts) holding the thermostat housing in place was rusted in solid. The short bolt came out, with effort but it unscrewed.

The long bolt refused to budge and snapped its head off instead (at least this allowed me to remove the housing over the (now headless) bolt.

It is soaking in Plusgas overnight and I will try again, also applying some heat, tomorrow.

The other thing that was rusted in place was the heater impeller fan, no wonder it made an unpleasant noise whenever I dared to switch it on.

Anyway I intend to install a blower from a Smart car which I have but I believe I need to swap the impeller for the Triumph one, so it blows the right way.

However mine was determined not to budge and ended up breaking......

So I need a replacement plastic heater fan if anyone has one?

I believe it is the same one as fitted to the Vitesse and the Spitfire heaters but I stand to be corrected.

I shall also place a wanted advert for one, hopefully someone has a spare.......

Best wishes,

Mike.

[jagnut66]

The bolt is out, plusgas plus my long handled rachet and some elbow grease, slowly and carefully turned it out. 

There will be plenty of copper grease on the threads when I reinstall the housing.

The rad and the heater matrix 'bled' pure rust and I've got to flush the engine out yet....................

This is what you get for not using antifreeze in the water. You'd think people would know better but the last three cars I've bought have contained nothing but plain tap water.

Doing this just means the engines rust from the inside out and the waterways can block up, plus you could get a cracked block in winter.

Why do people do it??

Oh, well............

Best wishes,

Mike.

[Colin Lindsay]

Good point from Rutty; mine had years of leaves packed in round it, I could have bagged it for compost. My TR7 had no antifreeze for what looked like years, too - the rusty water coming out was a disgrace to the PO. Take the heater pipes off, especially at the pipe which runs under the manifold, and clear it out - you'd be amazed at what it holds. I had to reuse this one when my nifty stainless version turned out to be a hopelessly inaccurate fit.