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Hydrogen


PeterH
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I follow a couple of guys on YouTube, Rich Rebuilds and Hoovies Garage - once you get over the americanisums then they interesting. The first is into EV's and owes a few electric garages. But also likes petrol - and has recently converted a Tesla to a V8 

I mention because The guy who does  Hoovies garage bought a 8year old Tesla - it was fine for a couple of weeks when there was a battery fault recorded - and the range was restricted to 50miles. Unfortunately it was a few months out of battery warranty - and Tesla wanted $16-20k to replace all the batteries - which effectively writes the car off - ok it can be largely recycled - but it means a $100k car is worthless in 8 years.

Fortunately Rich Rebuilds through one of his garages can get it fixed they hope for about $1000 or so - much more reasonable - and keeps the car on the road and worth something. 

What I find really frightening is that Tesla basically aren't interested. All they want to do is sell you new cars and component assemblies. 

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On 17/07/2021 at 12:23, Badwolf said:

To those of a certain age hydrogen brings up the thoughts, rightly or wrongly, of the airship disasters and the fires which destroyed them and took so many lives, when the hydrogen ignited. 

 

28 minutes ago, SpitFire6 said:

Hydrogen is not explosive. That is like saying flour is.

Spitfire6 - I quote my original post regarding hydrogen, which was bizarrely taken to task by someone who likes to think that he knows it all and obviously doesn't, by showing his ignorance. My comments were made to point out the dangers of using hydrogen which were highlighted (no pun intended - this is a serious comment) by the airship disasters of so long ago. I assume that all the relevant safety rules in place at the time, were correctly followed, but as we all know, these 'safeguards' may not be good enough and are only found wanting when it is too late (Grenfell Towers being a very sad example). Now if anyone wants to misquote and make any smart ars*d comments about that, please... don't bother

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My company won't lease Tesla cars because of their service...

Rich also fixed a guys Tesla with a 5 USD$ brass pipe fitting.... Tesla want 16k USD$ to replace his batteries... when all that was broken was a plastic connector for the battery cooling system..

 

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12 hours ago, Anglefire said:

What I find really frightening is that Tesla basically aren't interested. All they want to do is sell you new cars and component assemblies. 

Since when was that not true of any other motor manufacturer? EG  For my modern, I wanted the little plastic trim that covers the door lock.    Certainly Sir, that will be £330.   They would only sell it with a complete door lock and handle system.    And I've told of the Citroen reversing sensors that are tagged so that you need to buy an identical unit for twenty times the price.

It's long been a fact that they make their cars for break-even and their profits from parts.  In a supermarket it would be called a 'loss-leader'.

 

Flour bomb?   Now I did NOT expect this

JOhn

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But is hydrogen explosive?    Certainly it will burn, and burn fast, but so will a sheet of newspaper.    Now as amateur engineers and engine tuners, we all knwo what a stoichometric mixture is, so what will happen if you ignite such a mixture of hydrigen abd oxygen?    Let the eminent and delightfully 'mad scientist'  (he is most definitely sane!) Sir Martyn Poliakoff show you!

 

So ruptured tank of hydrogen is a severe fire risk, but not an explosive risk!

John

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On 20/07/2021 at 09:04, Dick Twitchen said:

Quote for date and time for reference only. Rude and unnecessary comments deleted as contrary to the good nature of this forum

Sorry Dick, I have obviously offended you which was never my intention..my apologies. You are, of course correct, that there is absolutely no excuse for challenging rudeness with further rudeness, for this I also apologise to the forum, as that makes me no different from those I have challenged. Perhaps in the light of this, it is time I should move on along with ClassicLife and others.

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1 hour ago, JohnD said:

But is hydrogen explosive?    Certainly it will burn, and burn fast, but so will a sheet of newspaper.    Now as amateur engineers and engine tuners, we all knwo what a stoichometric mixture is, so what will happen if you ignite such a mixture of hydrigen abd oxygen?    Let the eminent and delightfully 'mad scientist'  (he is most definitely sane!) Sir Martyn Poliakoff show you!

 

So ruptured tank of hydrogen is a severe fire risk, but not an explosive risk!

John

John, when I was teaching we used to get the occasional hydrogen cylinder in stock. Popular stuff with science teachers.

Anyway, I used to show the difference between a balloon  filled with pure hydrogen compared to an approx 2:1 of mix. A woof compared to a sharp crack. 

Anyway, although a leaky cylinder itself is not an explosion risk, wherever it leaks to will be. Just a thought. 

I am not keen on hydrogen in cars. Too leaky. 

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2 hours ago, JohnD said:

And I've told of the Citroen reversing sensors that are tagged so that you need to buy an identical unit for twenty times the price.

My previous Skoda, a Roomster, needed one replacing I got the garage in the next village to do it. I think the part was 50 something Euros, he didn't even charge for fitting as it was so quick ( I do use him regularly which might have helped) but I gave him some beer  wine tokens though 

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2 hours ago, JohnD said:

Flour bomb?   Now I did NOT expect this

Flour dust is a well known explosion risk in the agricultural industry, in particular milling. It is amazing what will explode or burn under the correct (wrong?) conditions. In this area farmers grow quite a bit of maize for animal feed, they harvest and shred the whole plant then store it, often under huge black plastic sheets. If it is too humid when stored it can ferment and ...

They are harvesting here at present, although the one that arrived to do the field behind the house has a 'technical problem' and there is certain to be at least one report of a fire in a barn due to the straw overheating and starting to smolder.

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Self igniting haystacks have long been a farming risk.   After I left school, I had a job as a lab boy, for a scientist who was researching just this - and that was in the mid '60s!   He investigated the proteins in the straw, and I set up the AutoAnalyser runs on the products of digested (with acid) straw, and then cleaned the glassware.    I never did learn the result of his research, but I did learn for the first time the value of PPE.  Chromic acid is fierce stuff!

 

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I've read through this debate and there is one thing . Hydrogen works, cost of producing large scale uncertain. Battery electric cars work but cost and long term charging and disposal uncertain. Flour does explode, working in the food industry "atex" areas have to be taken seriously and good housekeeping.  And the conclusion, I'd rather be working on my car and not think about it.

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1 hour ago, Mathew said:

Flour does explode,

So, a petrol engine works because the fuel mix explodes in the cylinder but isn't green. Battery powered cars have other 'green' issues.

Answer:

Use flour in internal combustion engines, low technology, renewable energy source. Not sure what the exhaust emmissions would be though. Sticky buns, bread rolls or crackers? :rolleyes:

When cutting my hedge this morning I decided I would be willing to compromise. I'll keep my ice cars and the next time i need/want to renew my mower or hedge trimmer or strimmer I'll buy a battery powered one. I'll sleep easier tonight now 

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14 minutes ago, Chris A said:

So, a petrol engine works because the fuel mix explodes in the cylinder but isn't green. Battery powered cars have other 'green' issues.

 

The fuel does not explode - it burns.

The world has killed many people trying to slow the burn down. (leaded petrol)

 

PS - I know you used the expression for effect

 

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The introduction of petrol injection was the early attempt to improve the efficiency of the burn and to provide better control over exhaust quality. Something the Diesel engine had had for many years. It’s main issue being more particulates in the exhaust stream, hence dpf’s and the use of ad blue (basically dried urine) to clean up the output. Either way the Carbon issue remains?. Just less of it by virtue of more efficient combustion.

Pete

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Many many years ago a guy recommended putting roofs on all stadiums.... during games you can siphon of the methane... when games were out fill the pitch with sheep and you get the same amount of methane in 30 minutes as you do for a full match...

He was from New Zealand so his numbers may be upside down.. 😄

 

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6 hours ago, Mathew said:

I've read through this debate and there is one thing . Hydrogen works, cost of producing large scale uncertain. Battery electric cars work but cost and long term charging and disposal uncertain. Flour does explode, working in the food industry "atex" areas have to be taken seriously and good housekeeping.  And the conclusion, I'd rather be working on my car and not think about it.

I taught ATEX for around four years. Mostly Gas, not Dust or Mining. Good housekeeping concerning dust prevents problems as you said. 

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9 hours ago, JohnD said:

Flour-powered (!) engines may be the future,

 I remember Flower Power? Although that was alleged to be largely due to illegal substances?. Hey! Pease and lorve, Man`. Where did my Beads, kaftan, and sandle`s get put. ?

P.s. I too didn`t inhale!

Pete

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