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Trunnionless suspension kit.


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I have it on my GT6, along with aluminium hubs and caliper brackets. No issues, less maintenance, no worries of trunnion snapping that I have experienced. 

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  well many uprights have  lasted   50years.

  most upright failures are down to incorrect/lack of lubrication allowing corrosion 

which starts the fracture 

rose joints still need cleaning and lubrication 

yes they do work but its an expensive solution to a..... bit of a  myth 

believe Canley classics developed this kit i would source from them 

Pete

 

 

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Definitely checkout Canley classics - I think there prices are the price you pay - based on the last thing I bought which was last January. So will either be a few quid cheaper or a lot!

But they are out of stock at the moment so depends how you are! 

4 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

  well many uprights have  lasted   50years.

  most upright failures are down to incorrect/lack of lubrication allowing corrosion 

which starts the fracture 

rose joints still need cleaning and lubrication 

yes they do work but its an expensive solution to a..... bit of a  myth 

believe Canley classics developed this kit i would source from them 

Pete

 

 

 

To be fair Pete, I don't think its a myth, plenty of evidence to show failures happen - and if you have put sticker/wider  tyres on, the limit of the original design may be found despite good maintenance. 

 

 

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maybe no myth but theres a lot of worriers without knowing  

a few happy minutes to have a look is a good move on a long service schedule  .  nothing lasts for ever 

its best to look first before you open the wallet what ever you decide to fit 

when the rose wears there is no adjustment , just replacement   will they last as long ???

 

 

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4 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

most upright failures are down to incorrect/lack of lubrication allowing corrosion 

which starts the fracture 

That is the pertinent point. My car was 5 years old when I bought it, I oiled the trunnions, but another 6 months and BANG! The PO hadn't bothered with maintenance, maintenance was for wimps! I changed both vertical links and trunnions. 40 years later my MOT man said "You got slack trunnions"  Stripped it down, VLs OK due to maintenance oil, but trunnions, worn. 

So, the moral is, oil yer trunnions.

Doug

 

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Question how frequent does a failure occur on a well maintained car and are failures more frequent on say a GT6 or Vitesse Mk2 whereat full lock and hitting the throttle will put the max shear on the upright/trunnions.

I think your both right to a point, but sometimes it’s just down to the metal fatigue or a manufacture fault that takes years to show up, what about stub axle failures they seem more prevelant!
 

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I seem to remember back in the day that quite a few Moggie Minors finished up with collapsed front suspension?. Often on roundabouts? strangely enough. Or is that another myth?. Mind I did go out one dark winter night to (try) and recover a pal`s Mk1 Escourt, which had ripped the McPherson strut right out of the (Rotten) inner front wing.

Pete

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Trunnions seem to break more easily at low speeds; only ever had one go but that was on a  Herald back about 1994 and it hit the kerb when manoeuvring at low speed, so that didn't help.

My father's Hillman Minx had a front wheel drop off, I think that was a sheared kingpin.

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Hallo and thank you everyone for your input on this a topic . It does seem there are differences of opinions on along term this kit could be a winner !

So I will stay with with what I've got traditional Trunnions for now. If some one can give us fearther comments this would be valuable info.

 

stay safe 

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Hello Chris

                  I thought of doing this but someone on another forum pointed out it alters the geometry and it has taken him some time to get it back to handle the same!

The pivot is a bit farther out! so a lot of work to sort out!

Roger

ps it addled my brain so just oiled the trunnions again as usual   

Roger

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minors and oxfords used a similar trunnion idea which suffered from thread stripping on the oxford the wheel would stop the whole collapse

but minors  pop out  

you do have the brass trunnion and the threaded upright both obviously wear and yes drop off or shears happen going on the drive etc

when there is a lot of steering loads  on the go 

its a maintenance  part and if treated correctly can last for years  , why are  they are so emotive  if a track rod fails guys just replace it without 

re designing the car or staying awake at night worrying 

pete

 

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10 hours ago, Chris.Allibone said:

Hallo and thank you everyone for your input on this a topic . It does seem there are differences of opinions on along term this kit could be a winner !

So I will stay with with what I've got traditional Trunnions for now. If some one can give us fearther comments this would be valuable info.

 

stay safe 

I fitted trunnionless 7 years ago when I built my car.  The difference in cost between std and trunnionless was negligable. And I wanted new. No doubt std would  last well,  but I appreciated the extra strength.

As to geometry, my car was set up when completed. And works brilliantly on trackdays and the road. However, we own a 2nd spit with identical 480lb springs at had front but std trunnion, and it is harder. So trunnionless softens the effect of the springs and shocks. 

The biggest issue is uprights are often 50+ years old, with 30 or more years of neglect. So need very careful inspection. 

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I would go with the cannleys kit. I have put it on my spitfire . Smoother turning and worry gone. I have had an upright snap going round a roundabout and its not fun. That was in the mid nineties, the car was about 25 years old then! 

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Got a set on my not yet on the road Vitesse 6.

Just ordered a cars worth of standard wheel studs and nuts from Canleys. The originals will have been stressed a lot over the 56 years of the cars life so time to treat it again.

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I can't see anywhere that these  trunnionless kits are available for Heralds.   Are they?   Is it that different from a Vitesse?   

As an aside I fitted them about 15 years ago to my GT6.  No issues since.

 

Dave

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On 30/07/2021 at 14:17, Sparky_Spit said:

Like Mathew above, I've had a vertical link snap when exiting a roundabout, at about 40mph.  It wasn't fun and not something I'd want to experience again. I've now had Canley trunnion kits on there for 5 or 6 years with no issues. Well worth the extra cost.

I wonder if you'd replaced both uprights with replacement standard uprights would you have had any issues either? The newness of the parts must have something to do with it and I'd like to think that good, new uprights, properly maintained, will work for years too. Just hoping! 

47 minutes ago, Dave pb said:

I can't see anywhere that these  trunnionless kits are available for Heralds.   Are they? 

 

Different from the GT6 / Vitesse versions but they're available for Spitfire and Herald at Canleys, part number CCS2. £344 approx for a pair, same price as the GT6 set.

https://www.canleyclassics.com/?product=trunnionless-front-suspension-kit

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I agree with Colin re using new Triumph trunnions vs the Canley ball and socket, which doesn't even use a seal to protect the ball from road dirt and hence there must be some accelerated wear? even the std upper ball joint has a boot type seal, and a split/failed boot is an automatic RWC fail here in Aus, why do the manufacturers fit a rubber boot if NOT required? and S/S ain't good in a fatigue and impact type usage, had several S/S failures of bolts in a heavy repetitive work & vibration (fatigue) type environment!

Re the std Triumph trunnion if serviced regularly and properly with oil and the bottom seal washer sealed (soldered) to stop the oil leaking out they should last well, I have several Splt and Vitesse trunnions spare units where both the male and female square profiled threads have been checked and the rubber seal replaced and all lubed,

When I replace the trunnion bush's probably every 3 years (I have a source of similar sized plastic bush's) I unwind the trunnion and check the threads for wear, clean all, replace the rubber seal and refit. With under 3k annual milage I lube the trunnions at least every year.

Waiting for the reaction, Ha!.

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56 minutes ago, Peter Truman said:

I agree with Colin re using new Triumph trunnions vs the Canley ball and socket, which doesn't even use a seal to protect the ball from road dirt and hence there must be some accelerated wear? even the std upper ball joint has a boot type seal, and a split/failed boot is an automatic RWC fail here in Aus, why do the manufacturers fit a rubber boot if NOT required? and S/S ain't good in a fatigue and impact type usage, had several S/S failures of bolts in a heavy repetitive work & vibration (fatigue) type environment!

Re the std Triumph trunnion if serviced regularly and properly with oil and the bottom seal washer sealed (soldered) to stop the oil leaking out they should last well, I have several Splt and Vitesse trunnions spare units where both the male and female square profiled threads have been checked and the rubber seal replaced and all lubed,

When I replace the trunnion bush's probably every 3 years (I have a source of similar sized plastic bush's) I unwind the trunnion and check the threads for wear, clean all, replace the rubber seal and refit. With under 3k annual milage I lube the trunnions at least every year.

Waiting for the reaction, Ha!.

Nothing wrong with trunnions , having had the shaft snap on me on one that was a newish and oiled trunnion at the time i know what its like to have a failure. You can have a perfectly working 386 computer too, it won't run modern programs but it does not need too! The upright shafts can and do fail not 100 percent certain if it will be due to oil/grease or lack of maintenance. It will be stress related during its life. So if you have an upright that has been driven for miss daisy its probably going to last longer than one thats been round a track or pushed hard over years. My yellow spit will be pretty standard so will have trunnions. The puma powered spit has big alloys and four pot brakes and takes alot more stress , so is running on the canley kit. So i suppose if you are going to drive normally or slowly you will probably never snap one . Used for track or hard driving the kit maybe the way to go, i don't care ,i have both and enjoy it all while everybody else argues the to##.

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I had a drive shaft shear on a year old Herald 1200 Conv in 67 fortunately whilst backing out of the drive in sunny Nth York’s , on inspection it was a manufacturing flaw as it showed signs on rust around 1/3 way through the crack of the shaft and it was around halfway along the shaft, it happens. Shaft hadn’t been touched before failure, 

Still don’t like the lack of a seal on Canleys socketed ball joint

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8 hours ago, Peter Truman said:

 

Still don’t like the lack of a seal on Canleys socketed ball joint

Would one seal stuff out or seal it in ? Like oil or grease on the trunion does grease on increase wear or cause it to snap!!! I would like to think it is the force over time that causes it to snap and grease wears the threads quicker than ep oil. I like the colour blue and yellow on a car , i don't like green but it does not mean green cars trunions fail more, has anyone got the evidence or i suspect its all opinion, I expect john to waid in at this point as hes the only one who will waist hours looking through the internet to try and prove a point. So my conclusion to all this pointless drivel .

1. I have not had enough sleep and can't spell very well.

2. If it does make any sense its a miracle. 

3. Buy a kit if you drive a car hard round corners and don't like oiling trunnions. 

4. If you don't like the lack of seal ask the people who supply the kit why.

5. Why even back in the ninties it was known to oil your trunnions but people still greased them and we still have it today, and it was known that the pin snapped usually going round a roundabout at 20 ish!

6. Some people will still be reading this although it makes no further contribution to the original question.

7. This will still be argued about.

8. Most importantly i refer you to point 1. Enjoy your life and get out and drive your car, as its better for your parts to wear out than age out having never been used.

9. How long before i delete this post and why did i post it in the first place.

10. Anybody got a cheap pair of spitfire seats? Need set for the yellow spitfire. 

11. Don't moan about point 10 being in the wrong place, you should have got bored way back and stopped reading and i refer you to piont one.

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18 minutes ago, Mathew said:

Would one seal stuff out or seal it in ? Like oil or grease on the trunion does grease on increase wear or cause it to snap!!! I would like to think it is the force over time that causes it to snap and grease wears the threads quicker than ep oil. I like the colour blue and yellow on a car , i don't like green but it does not mean green cars trunions fail more, has anyone got the evidence or i suspect its all opinion, I expect john to waid in at this point as hes the only one who will waist hours looking through the internet to try and prove a point. So my conclusion to all this pointless drivel .

1. I have not had enough sleep and can't spell very well.

2. If it does make any sense its a miracle. 

3. Buy a kit if you drive a car hard round corners and don't like oiling trunnions. 

4. If you don't like the lack of seal ask the people who supply the kit why.

5. Why even back in the ninties it was known to oil your trunnions but people still greased them and we still have it today, and it was known that the pin snapped usually going round a roundabout at 20 ish!

6. Some people will still be reading this although it makes no further contribution to the original question.

7. This will still be argued about.

8. Most importantly i refer you to point 1. Enjoy your life and get out and drive your car, as its better for your parts to wear out than age out having never been used.

9. How long before i delete this post and why did i post it in the first place.

10. Anybody got a cheap pair of spitfire seats? Need set for the yellow spitfire. 

11. Don't moan about point 10 being in the wrong place, you should have got bored way back and stopped reading and i refer you to piont one.

12. We all like farkles for our cars. Especially ones that have to be hunted out to be seen by those who know.

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