Draining my Herald diff

[jagnut66]

Hi, 

I have a Herald 1200 and I have just been round servicing, emptying oils and refilling etc. 

However when I got to the diff I couldn't see a drain plug. I can see the filler plug but when I cleared away the accumilated gunk from the bottom of the diff, where the manual indicates the drain plug should be............. nothing??

Just solid casing, not even a blanked off port.....

I checked my spare diff and this is the same, a filler plug but no drain plug.

Can anyone advise on this?

Many thanks,

Mike.

[Clive]

Not fitted. But can be.

However, some sort of suction gun is the easiest solution. 

[NonMember]

As Clive says, "They're all like that, sir". At least, nearly all. The factory deleted the diff drain plug very early in production because it's not really needed for a standard road car with an expected life shorter than the oil. Some people drill and tap to fit one - it's not hard if you have the right tools and can keep your drill nice and straight - but a suction gun is probably the cheaper tool.

[PeteH]

Hi

I too noted that the drain plug even shown in some early "manuals" was missing?.

Some time ago. I purchased a 12V Pump from Aldi, (Might have been Lidle?) was If I recall about £15/20?. Excellent for doing oil changes (via the Dip Stick on one car!) and evacuating contaminated fuel tanks too. Something Similar would probably work for yourself?.

Pete.

[Paul H]

This suction pump should work

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=Oil+Suction+Pump+Car+Hand+Syringe+Gun+Pump+Gearbox+Fill+%2F+Extractor+500ml&_trksid=p2380057.m4084.l1313

Paul

[jagnut66]

23 minutes ago, PeteH said:

I too noted that the drain plug even shown in some early "manuals" was missing?.

That's why I was flummuxed, it was shown in the manual as being there, thought I was going mad.................. then remembered I am...............

37 minutes ago, NonMember said:

The factory deleted the diff drain plug very early in production because it's not really needed for a standard road car with an expected life shorter than the oil.

😄 Yet they're still on the road 50 plus years later...........

7 minutes ago, Paul H said:

This suction pump should work

I have a couple of those, one for the Minors, as they use engine oil in the gearbox and one for the diff (EP90), which is now also for the Triumph gearbox (same).

This, of course, is for clean fresh oil.

So I would have to get another for the 'dirty' old oil if I go this route.

Though I am tempted to drill and fit a drain plug, using a Triumph plug, as used on the gearbox and engine, so they all match.

What size tap would that be?

Plus, if I do this, will flushing it through with oil be enough to clean out any swarf?

Of course I could drill it with the old oil still in place and let it flush itself...................... 😉

Thanks and best wishes,

Mike.

[Clive]

1 minute ago, jagnut66 said:

That's why I was flummuxed, it was shown in the manual as being there, thought I was going mad.................. then remembered I am...............

😄 Yet they're still on the road 50 plus years later...........

I have a couple of those, one for the Minors, as they use engine oil in the gearbox and one for the diff (EP90), which is now also for the Triumph gearbox (same).

This, of course, is for clean fresh oil.

So I would have to get another for the 'dirty' old oil if I go this route.

Though I am tempted to drill and fit a drain plug, using a Triumph plug, as used on the gearbox and engine, so they all match.

What size tap would that be?

Plus, if I do this, will flushing it through with oil be enough to clean out any swarf?

Of course I could drill it with the old oil still in place and let it flush itself...................... 😉

Thanks and best wishes,

Mike.

It could get messy drilling while full of oil. But a good flush with diesel after drilling, and a magnetic plug, should make it safe. 

I remember one chap (rather good with cars, so reliable info) reckoned a magnetic plug on the filler collected more swarf than one on a drain plug. Just a thought....

Meanwhile, I would keep it simple and use a suction gun. maybe pop a magnet on a stick in the diff oil to pick up any swark that may get left behind? And a refill with quality yellow metal safe oil. 

[poppyman]

Hi Mike, I have one of the suction pumps but it's difficult (no pun intended) to get to the bottom of the diff. So i made this up with a piece of 1/4 metal fuel pipe a primer bulb (fleabay £5)  and rubber fuel hose. It got everything out of the diff and i also washed it around with a bit of parrafin. I refilled mine (Dolomite) with ep140's since then you can't hear the slight whine and the oil leaks have stopped. I used the suction pump to refill it.

Tony. 

[jagnut66]

Found this on ebay, so going to give it a go.....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402795474037

Best wishes,

Mike.

[Colin Lindsay]

3 hours ago, jagnut66 said:

Found this on ebay, so going to give it a go.....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/402795474037

Best wishes,

Mike.

Almost the same as the LIDL version I use, so should work.

[Sparky_Spit]

I have one like that and it does work; I changed my oil a few weeks ago. I found I needed to push a smaller diameter tube up the inlet tube supplied with the pump, so it was easier to wiggle it down to the bottom of the diff casing.

[jagnut66]

49 minutes ago, Sparky_Spit said:

I found I needed to push a smaller diameter tube up the inlet tube supplied with the pump, so it was easier to wiggle it down to the bottom of the diff casing.

Something like a windscreen washer tube?

Best wishes,

Mike.

[Pete Lewis]

aha    diff with a   Catherter    !!!!

Pete

[poppyman]

1 hour ago, Pete Lewis said:

aha    diff with a   Catherter    !!!!

Pete

That is what my mates called my version  

Tony.

[poppyman]

1 hour ago, jagnut66 said:

Something like a windscreen washer tube?

Best wishes,

Mike.

If you use metal tube Mike you can hear it when it bottom's in the casing and it goes where you want it once you have the right bend.

Tony.

 

[Sparky_Spit]

Yes, just a tube that is small enough in diameter to fit inside the "sucking" tube. I think I used fish tank airline tubing.  I like Jugnuts idea of using metal tubing.

[jagnut66]

2 hours ago, poppyman said:

If you use metal tube Mike you can hear it when it bottom's in the casing and it goes where you want it once you have the right bend

A bit of spare brake pipe then.

Best wishes,

Mike.

[poppyman]

1 hour ago, jagnut66 said:

A bit of spare brake pipe then.

Best wishes,

Mike.

I used fuel pipe Mike 1/4 it just makes it drain a bit faster, but i was using a hand pump.  Brake pipe will do the job though.

Tony. 

[Badwolf]

Tony - Would 8mm copper microbore central heating tube work. I have a length somewhere left over from making the main fuel pipe? Is it an idea to cut the end at an angle to stop it sucking against the bottom of the diff. My oil was drained a couple of years ago but not by choice as the front oil seal had died. I only found out when I jacked up the back end. The garage stank of hypoid for weeks. I blamed next door's cat 🐱

[PeteH]

8mm might be a bit difficult to wangle into the diff. I think my suction tube is more 6mm. But it (the diff;) was drained anyway when I did the bearing seals before I reassembled it back to the chassis. which meant it was easy to drain and flush. Now all I have to remember is to check the level!, before I run it.

Pete

[poppyman]

11 hours ago, Badwolf said:

Tony - Would 8mm copper microbore central heating tube work. I have a length somewhere left over from making the main fuel pipe? Is it an idea to cut the end at an angle to stop it sucking against the bottom of the diff. My oil was drained a couple of years ago but not by choice as the front oil seal had died. I only found out when I jacked up the back end. The garage stank of hypoid for weeks. I blamed next door's cat 🐱

It would actually BW i didn't have any to hand at the time, you will bending it bit by bit you will get it the right shape. I had the same problem with 1/4  it just catches eveywhere so a few bends and it works, mine is an odd shape but it goes right down to the bottom.

Tony.

[Badwolf]

The microbore bending spring will be useful in getting the weird shape without collapsing the tube. Though I would check before I try it. If it were a none starter I wouldn't waste the time.

[jagnut66]

Done this today, it takes ages to suck it out through the small diameter pipe and a bit of fiddling to get it in deep enough in the first place. I wish they'd fitted sump plugs!

I may yet still go this route in the future.

However for today a thought occurs, if I let all the old oil drain out of the pumps pipes first, I'm wondering if I could use it to suck fresh oil of the container and pump it back into the diff?

What do others think?

Best wishes,

Mike.

[NonMember]

24 minutes ago, jagnut66 said:

I'm wondering if I could use it to suck fresh oil of the container and pump it back into the diff?

I can't see why not. I got really fed up of those pathetic squeezy diff oil bottles years ago. I had to hand a "Killaspray" weed killer sprayer - a 4L container with an air pump on top - pressurize it and use the trigger on the nozzle to control the spray. I removed the spray handle part, filled the tub with gear oil, stuck the hose into the diff and gave it a few pumps. The oil flows slowly enough that when it begins to dribble out of the filler hole I just pull the pressure release valve and jobs a goodun.

[poppyman]

Just suck a bit of engine cleaner or a bit through it Mike to clean it. It will work to refill it but will take just as long. Much much longer if you use ep140 oil as i did....

Tony.