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Comparative mileage Classic and Modern


68vitesse

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I was on the phone with the Insurance Company yesterday, they tell me I have a 1500 mile limit on the GT6. I didn't think it was so low! I think I've covered over 600 miles in the last two months alone. I've insured the Herald for 3000 miles as I'm expecting it to be off the road for most of the winter, but I think I've messed up as I quoted a lower reading on the miles than is actually accurate, so it seems I've already covered a thousand or more... :(

I've dropped from 14000 per year in the modern to about 2000 since retirement, but for long trips I use the other half's Freelander and am really wondering if I really need another car at all.

 

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I was surprised to see that I have covered 1500 miles in the Spit since June when it became viable to use for actual journeys and not just a quick test drive to discover what else was wrong with it 🙄.

Nearly 250 miles over the last week, in fact.

Consequently, the modern cars are being used even less now. Probably about 10000 miles this year between them for both my wife and I using them.

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38 minutes ago, rogerguzzi said:

Hello All

               We have covered 3500 miles this year by goig out most Wednesdays with other friends in the TR4,TR6 GT6,MGB GT,etc

I organize the runs with breakfast and at least one Cake and Coffee stop!

Mileage is between 100 & 200 miles home to home

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That's what it's all about 👍

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30 minutes ago, Mathew said:

F##k them. While china produces so much pollution, our cars in comparison are nothing. 

We really should not be taking the "them and us" approach. Besides, somebody else doing something worse than us does not mean we are saints.

The reason China produces so much pollution is because they, and other places, have become the worlds factories. We no longer make a lot of stuff, they do it on our behalf for less money. It doesn't help that they have low standards of environmental protection, but that is why it is cheap. e moan, but don't want to pay 25% more for our new iPhone, TV, car or whatever. So WE are the real issue wanting everything cheap, and wanting LOTS of new stuff. By we, I mean the population in general.

If the classic car movement buries its head in the sand over "green" issues we will become alienated by the general population. That will likely make life harder for us.

 We need to market ourselves as being responsible, and take climate change seriously. It may require some sort of offset scheme or whatever. Just look at all the companies out there claiming to be carbon neutral (they really are not) but realise it is very good publicity. We should learn something from that. In fact Club Triumph used a company to carbon offset its RBRR a few years ago, making it a carbon neutral event. Not bad for a joint 200K miles in a weekend (100 cars x 2000 miles). Offsetting costs are not outrageous. Just think how satisfying it would be to rebuke criticism by explaining our fuel use if offset/carbon neutral.

Just a thought.....

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41 minutes ago, clive said:

The reason China produces so much pollution is because they, and other places, have become the worlds factories

That would be (mostly) corporate greed, Manufacturers do not ever base their bottom line on just cheap labour, they too base it on the ability to increase corporate profits. Dyson, was an early (and typical) example. The Chinese (of course) where pleased to do it, as their Leaders could see them ultimately being able to use their manufacturing strengths and the foreign exchange it brought to put pressure on the rest of the world. As is currently happening. But that is typical "lip service" Politics.

As for the UK going green, regardless of the "moral" issues the only thing the current "rush to green" will achieve is the further decline of the UK as a viable nation.

Pete

P.s. Rogerguzzie: do you know what the two small Aeroplanes are?. The all yellow one is vaguely like a Stimpson, But the blue one with chequer tail?, escapes me?. It has the look of one of the Check, Aerobatic models?.

Pete

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11 minutes ago, Mathew said:

I wrote a long reply to this then deleted it , my first comment stands, its short to the point and just what china is saying to us.

You are entitled to your opinion. However, I suspect China is actually quite happy (and justified) to rebuke us if we criticise them, as the pollution is being created on our behalf. We all need to look at the bigger picture

1 minute ago, PeteH said:

That would be (mostly) corporate greed, Manufacturers do not ever base their bottom line on just cheap labour, they too base it on the ability to increase corporate profits. Dyson, was an early (and typical) example. The Chinese (of course) where pleased to do it, as their Leaders could see them ultimately being able to use their manufacturing strengths and the foreign exchange it brought to put pressure on the rest of the world. As is currently happening. But that is typical "lip service" Politics.

As for the UK going green, regardless of the "moral" issues the only thing the current "rush to green" will achieve is the further decline of the UK as a viable nation.

Pete

Yes, China has cheap labour and lower standards of environmental protection/safety of workers etc etc contributing to lower production costs. Ultimately it would be better for us to bring manufacturing back to the UK, and for us all to stop buying so much new stuff. However, that will not go down well with the electorate. And we would all be financially worse off. 

There is a serious argument for the UK to invest in green tech. Historically we have been world leaders in developing new ideas, so it may have real economic benefits to the UK in the future. Of course, there are many hair-brained schemes (and schemers) who need to be weeded out along the way, but that has always been the case. 

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3 minutes ago, clive said:

Ultimately it would be better for us to bring manufacturing back to the UK

Ironically, Donald Trump made the US greener in real terms despite being a climate denier, because increased US manufacturing was a "bring back the blue collar jobs" policy that appealed to his fan base.

We, however, have bought hook line an sinker into the 1980s dogma succinctly summarised by a Singaporean banker friend of my other half's: Why would you want to be a smelly manufacturing centre when you can make more money from getting other people to do the work?

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I have long complained about the use of China (And others) for our manufacturing hub. Mainly because of their appalling human rights and general care less attitude to pretty much everything.

Same with the we are green attitude - we have just exported ours to the 3rd parties. You have to look at the whole cycle. 

We have also been brought into the replace with new - both when broken and not fixing and when you just fancy a change.

How many people (Most on here probably excepted) change their cars every 3 years? Keep until the warranty expires and buy new because repairs are expensive? Forgetting that a new car costs a minimum of 20% of its value when you drive off the forecourt and another 30% or so over the next 3 years. Buy a lot of bits for that!

 

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Hmm, I didn't expect to start that discussion, only sharing that I am making some completely unnecessary journeys in my car just for fun.

But I suppose that always was the case in the earlier days of motoring. People used them predominantly for just that purpose, often in the garage all week and brought out for a polish and a drive on Sunday afternoons.

Anyway, I can see there is an argument for convincing the non classic car interested public that they are not a threat to the planet but personally, I think that is best done by explaining they are the ultimate example of recycling. Driving cars is only a part of any perceived impact they make to the planet. Sourcing raw materials, building new cars & shipping them round the world probably has just as much environmental impact which our cars don't. 

I also think this "carbon offsetting" lark is very dubious but did note that during the recent heat wave in Europe a forest that had been planted for that purpose was destroyed by fire, causing a significant amount of pollution 🤔.

Anyway, if I should find myself cornered in the pub by someone challenging my selfish use of my vehicle just for pleasure I will tell them, without any doubt, that my car is green lol

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The problem is that Britain is responsible for less than 1% of the World's pollution (directly, not including all those countries allegedly beavering away on our behalf) but once again we have to be seen to be World Leaders in reducing pollution and so are doing so disproportionately in the hope that we'll get a pat on the back from someone somewhere along the line. Aren't we great? Especially when we're the most crowded country in Europe.

China is making vast amounts of money which they are investing in other countries around the world, particularly Africa, and they're moving in on Afghanistan now that everyone else has left. They don't give a toss for rights, copyrights, labour practices or the rest. We didn't force China to become a vast factory; they saw the opportunity and took it whilst shaking their heads in amazement at the rest of us who didn't just drop the ball, we practically threw it away. Same with the Japanese who walked into our car industry.

We can argue, till we're blue in the face, that it's all one planet and we're all in this together, but we have the luxury of sitting back with our bottle of prosecco and the latest series streaming on Netflix and we just know that we're saving the planet by not taking our car out for a run. A huge percentage of the planet is going about their daily business without a care, making money, doing what they have to and making far more pollution that we ever could, and all our little sacrifices are making no difference whatsoever.

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Well cliff.b, you started the week off well.

Moderation in all things is the answer. A McDo from time to time is fine, just not 3 times a day every day. A glass of wine/beer/spirits occasionally. Scrub that I fall foul of that aspect of moderation.

Same with green stuff/environment. If everyone things before acting then we'll get by.

On the question of our classics being green or not. No one has yet questioned me on it, I still get plenty of 'thumbs up'.

Should someone take me to task my answer is prepared.

How many kilometres do you drive per year and what is the level of pollution of your car? I'm certain that due to my low total annual distance my overall pollution is less then theirs. Plus I kept my last car for 10 years and expect to do the same with this one.

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5 minutes ago, Chris A said:

what is the level of pollution of your car?

Weirdly, over the last few tankfuls (a holiday driving moderate distances), the fuel economy I calculated for the Spitfire is very nearly the same as the Mondeo. There's no question at all that the Mondeo is cleaner in terms of toxic pollutants, but for "carbon footprint" it's far less clear-cut.

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2 hours ago, PeteH said:

P.s. Rogerguzzie: do you know what the two small Aeroplanes are?. The all yellow one is vaguely like a Stimpson, But the blue one with chequer tail?, escapes me?. It has the look of one of the Check, Aerobatic models?.

Pete

Hello Pete

                The yellow one is a Pitts special  and the other is a Yak 52 I have forgot what the other Yak is

If you go to aircraft registations you can read about them

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28 minutes ago, Mathew said:

My spitfire has a pre lamba and after lamba sensor between the catalytic convertor, when i get back from holiday i will take it to test its emissions. Bet apart from an electric spitfire its the cleanest about! So in a funny way i have sort of done my bit 🤔

I would be interested to know how a modern engine affects fuel economy.

Wondering how much of the improvement seen in modern cars is due to engine technology and how much due to advancements in aerodynamics and other things.

Obviously driving style would affect this greatly so you would need to drive it the same as you would have done with the original engine.

I suspect this might prove difficult lol

 

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3 minutes ago, Mathew said:

Style unfortunately will be the same, velocity will however be different. Full tank ish when set off for the show (still a bit of room). 146 ish miles done since a 30 pound top up still over half shown on the guage and looking in the tank its about an inch above the hump. Thrashed and motorway 70 ish. Apart from a section of 50. So no idea but can't be that bad. Should have about another 150 miles before a fill up. 

Sounds like a significant improvement on a standard Spit then which shows the difference electronic fuel & ignition mapping plus, in your case, variable cam timing makes, I guess.

I'm now wondering how much difference adding EFI & programmable ignition timing could make to a standard engine if tuned for drivability & economy.

Not planning on doing it, just got me thinking 🤔.

Although it would be cool to have a "go faster switch" to change the mappings when required 😁

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2 minutes ago, Mathew said:

I remember its possible to get near 50mpg from a spitfire. Std cam, flowed head , k and n filters, richer needles and a cold air feed to the carbs. And most importantly a steady driving style. 

Hello All

             I have fuel injection with ITB's and Microsquirt ecu

The engine is fully balanced and a Newman fast road cam, head ported by me! rods polished balanced and shot peened the block is decked and compression ratio is about 9.75 to 1,  4 branch manifold I have a 28% overdrive and I can use it on 2nd gear when needed(up hill twisty roads!)

I have noted the fuel over the 3500 miles and I am getting 45mpg overall

I can see a few places it could be leaned off from the guage in the car!

I am not going to at the moment as I think that E10 may make it a bit weaker although I give the ECU a 6% control to alter things

Roger

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1 hour ago, Mathew said:

Thats pretty good, whats your driving style?

Hello Mathew

                       There was no motorway driving in this and we tend to drive spiritedly especially on the twisty bits (3rd gear and in and out of overdrive sometimes 2nd and overdrive)

I think if I did a long drive on an A road at 50/60mph and level it would be nearer 50mpg

Roger

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