Panel Wipe

[Paul H]

Bought this can , described as panel wipe . I now have “fisheye “ and don’t know if it’s contaminated air or Im using the wrong product as panel wipe 

Paul

 

 

[Badwolf]

I think that's the panel wipe that I have. Its good stuff. To prevent fish-eyes you need to add this to your paint

Got mine off fleabay. You are probably correct about the contaminated air. Try not to use the likes of WD40 or other lubricate/silicon sprays where you are going to paint. It hangs around in the atmosphere forever

[chrishawley]

It's the right sort of stuff.

But......

If panels have become heavily contaminated (e.g. long term storage, been in an environment where oils or waxes have been misted) then the contaminants may be so widespread and soaked in that panel wipe can't lift them all out. In which case flatting and re-priming in 2-pack may be the only option. Or in the most extreme cases an isolator primer is needed.

Only rarely are airlines the culprit assuming that the compressor isn't knackered and that a remote oiler for air tools hasn't been used. But to control both water, but also other contaminants, a spray gun should not be run straight off the compressor. At least one, but maybe two, level(s) of filtration should be in place between the compressor and the gun.  I always use at least one of a) an in line filter b) a filter regulator. Or both.

Anti-silicone drops are good stuff and minimise fisheyes pretty well. They can be used as a matter of routine. But they do alter the 'feel' of paint so a few minutes practice 'off the job' is a good idea.

Another factor which helps to suppress fisheyes is using a dust coat before applying the full coat. And giving that dust coat plenty of time (or warmth) to nearly fully harden before going in with the full coat .Won't eliminate silicones but is one more help.

I've assumed we're talking about 2-pack here. The issueswq with basecoat and clear are a bit different.

 

 

 

[Paul H]

Hi Chris, I’ve got moisture traps at the compressor and the gun . I’m beginning to think the compressor might be at fault . I’m using 2k Epoxy Primer 

 

Then Cellulose . I’ll try anti silicone and see if there’s an improvement . I’m very new to spraying and will try misting as you suggest 

This is what happened when spraying cellulose on a sill for my Vitesse . I’ve started to flatten again before spraying again . The other sill was fine and fish eye only started when I used the Upol Panel wipe 

Onwards and upwards and enjoying the learning curve 

Paul

 

[chrishawley]

I was just wondering whether you've made any progress on the paint issue. Painting sounds sooo simple when one reads the 'how to do it books' but the reality is different and most is learnt through experience.

Looking at your photos I get the impression less of fisheyes (silicones) and more of generalised reaction of the colour coat. Now I can't back this up with firm experience but it's within the bounds of possibility that UPol's panel wipe is formulated on the assumption of using a 2-pack paint system and not compatible with cellulose. I suppose the only way to prove that is to spray out a test piece and do a half and half comparison of panel wipe v no panel wipe.

Cellulose is a lot harder to use than 2-pack, although cheaper. One aspect is that cellulose uses a large percentage of very solvent thinners whereas 2-pack has a small percentage of (relatively) non-solvent thinners. Cellulose thus has more propensity to  'wake up' incompatibilities in any previous coats under the most recently applied primer. If the area has not been bare metaled there's always a possibility that either one pack acrylic or (worse) synthetic has been applied at some time in the past which then reacts with any fresh application.

Hope you make good progress on this. I'd be interested to know the final diagnosis.

 

[Badwolf]

I hope that the upol panel wipe is ok with cellulose as that's what I intend to use on mine. There are just so many reasons for problems. My original trouble with blistering was caused by applying paint over primer which had been left to absorb atmospheric moisture. Something which I knew nothing about at the time. Of course any contaminates, as Mathew says, on your wiping cloth/s and you are sunk. Washing residue, either from home or the factory, right down to putting it on a contamated surface while you have a drink, will give you grief.

[Paul H]

3 hours ago, chrishawley said:

I was just wondering whether you've made any progress on the paint issue. Painting sounds sooo simple when one reads the 'how to do it books' but the reality is different and most is learnt through experience.

Looking at your photos I get the impression less of fisheyes (silicones) and more of generalised reaction of the colour coat. Now I can't back this up with firm experience but it's within the bounds of possibility that UPol's panel wipe is formulated on the assumption of using a 2-pack paint system and not compatible with cellulose. I suppose the only way to prove that is to spray out a test piece and do a half and half comparison of panel wipe v no panel wipe.

Cellulose is a lot harder to use than 2-pack, although cheaper. One aspect is that cellulose uses a large percentage of very solvent thinners whereas 2-pack has a small percentage of (relatively) non-solvent thinners. Cellulose thus has more propensity to  'wake up' incompatibilities in any previous coats under the most recently applied primer. If the area has not been bare metaled there's always a possibility that either one pack acrylic or (worse) synthetic has been applied at some time in the past which then reacts with any fresh application.

Hope you make good progress on this. I'd be interested to know the final diagnosis.

 

Thanks Chris , followed your analysis with interest . My gut feeling is that the Upol panel wipe is not compatible with Cellulose and simple test will sort that out . I’ll keep u posted as to the results 

Paul 

[Badwolf]

I have been in touch with an associate of mine who is a specialist in classic car restoration. He feels that it is highly unlikely that the problem has been caused by the upol panel wipe. More likely to be contamination from the surroundings including the cloths used or even transferring naturals oils from the skin if not wearing gloves. He also confirms the need for a combined oil/water separator on the compressor. Hope that this helps a little.

[Paul H]

Just now, Badwolf said:

I have been in touch with an associate of mine who is a specialist in classic car restoration. He feels that it is highly unlikely that the problem has been cause by the upol panel wipe. More likely to be contamination from the surroundings including the cloths used or even transferring naturals oils from the skin if not wearing gloves. He also confirms the need for a combined oil/water separator on the compressor. Hope that this helps a little.

I have oil water separators on both the compressor outlet and on the gun . This leaves general lack of cleanliness which is likely . I’ll still do the test with and without panel wipe to be sure . Before the panel wipe I was using brake cleaner spray 

Paul 

[Badwolf]

I think that brake cleaner is reasonably pure....but only to a point, unlike carb cleaner which contain lubricants. I believe that any aerosol may have contaminates in the propellant and, of course, anything containing silicon is a no no, which may include wd40 and similar lubes. The spray in the air may be your problem.

[chrishawley]

Any progress?

[Paul H]

31 minutes ago, chrishawley said:

Any progress?

Hi Chris , not yet life keeps getting in the way 🤔might get a chance next week 

Paul

 

[Badwolf]

Paul - A thought in that if you use a washing machine in the garage, beware of airborne washing powder particles.

[Chris A]

1 hour ago, Badwolf said:

Paul - A thought in that if you use a washing machine in the garage, beware of airborne washing powder particles.

The voice of experience?

We've moved on to what are called 'pods' here, or at least that's what I buy for the person in charge of the washing machine.

[Badwolf]

Chris - Not had any problems as yet, but I have noticed how the powder tends to fly if caught in a draught as we tend to empty the powder into a plastic box to stop it getting damp. I just thought that it might be a useful consideration for PaulH

[Chris A]

Good to read you said WE tend . . . Not she or even worse I . . .🙄

[Badwolf]

I suppose that WE should transfer the powder outside, but then it starts raining so it still gets damp.