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Anyone use “the flying Dutchman’s” 6 impeller water pump?


avivalasvegas
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hmmm this is quite a complicated subject and for optimum performance theres has to be the correct balance between cooling surface, air flow and water flow. Increasing any one of these may not be as effective as hoped without making other changes. The pump in our cars is the same model used for the 150bhp TR6 so for normal duty I find it hard to believe its the most deficient part of the cooling system...

Your aux fan should only operate when stationary or moving up to walking pace. If it still comes on when going faster its not achieving anything as the cooling air flow will already be more than it can provide but is an indication that the something is wrong with the cooling 'balance' mentioned.  

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The std water pumps work fine. It is teh radiator that is marginal.

But you need to check what temp the fan comes on at, and bottom or top of rad. 

Many people panic if the temp reaches 90 degrees, but panic should start at about 110. Fan in top hose come on at early/mid 90s 

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I had my water pump rebuilt at EP Services. Its a hybrid as I needed a shorter pump to fit a larger more powerful electric fan. He used the standard vanes but I measured the depth of the housing casting and he set the vane depth to give minimal clearance. As with all vanes reducing the clearance to the housing can dramatically increase efficiency. 

Driving back from Duxford in 27C temperature and 70(+)mph on the M11 the gauge was only in the high 80s. In traffic the fan kicks in at 95C and down to high 80s in a minute. 

Don't panic, as Clive said make sure your gauge is correct. However I think Racetorations sell a billet machined curved vane pump for about £250+ once you've bought the pulley. 

Iain 

If it's an auxiliary fan do you still have the crank driven fan? 

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6 hours ago, avivalasvegas said:

This one?

Yes, the electric fan kicks in in London traffic & above 60 mph. Otherwise it is rarely activated.

There is no way the fan should be coming on when driving at speed. At 60mph the fan will be doing nothing, except indicating that the temperature has risen .

You really need to check the exact cut-in temperature. It is either way too low, or the radiator needs a recore.

OR do as Andy Cook discovered, ditch the electric fan altogether and just use the std crank driven one.

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Well the answer depends on how efficient your radiator is! If very efficient the extra flow would be put to good effect. If poor flow due to many reasons you could be in a worse situation where it does not cool enough! The thermostat will play a key part in this. So with our limited testing and knowledge on the key parts you pays your money and take your chance. If it works great , if it doesn't you either have to change other bits or go back to standard. First of i would always check that the bits you have are working correctly prior to changing anything. As we are all remote to you , that will be your perogative. 

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20 minutes ago, Mathew said:

Well the answer depends on how efficient your radiator is! 

I must admit that's one of the first things I ever do to a newly purchased Triumph; flush the cooling system, and see if the radiator can be improved. Modern cores seem much more efficient, so I've upgraded to three row rather than two, and with Heralds the wide radiator is the first thing I dig out of the spares pile. I have a local radiator company who will recore them for me, probably about £100. I used an electric fan on my first Spitfire, as everyone else was using them and it seemed like a good manly upgrade to go for, and ditched if after a year; never needed one on any car after that. If the GT6 needle started to rise I just opened the windows and turned the heater on... :)

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52 minutes ago, Mathew said:

Heater is always on with my open tops! Every little helps!!!

You shouldn't need to do that as a matter f course, and until the system is up to temperature could even be counter productive surely.

Having a correctly functioning heater does give you a secondary cooling system. When I got my 13/60 the heater didn't work at all. A complete flushing of the whole system and the heater plus a new heater valve and my cooling system is fine.

When I get back from a run I try and remember to open the heater valve a couple of kilometres from home so the water in the heater gets cycled, I leave it open until I next take it out. Opening the heater valve does result in the temp needle dropping - so it does work. I can even feel the heat with the hood down - heater set to direct air flow to feet.

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My apologies - we did run new coolant through earlier this year. It came out quite clear. No rust or sludge was visible.

The aux fan definitely kicks in at high speed, as the temperature gauge does move above the halfway mark, even in colder weather. This only happens in London bumper to bumper traffic otherwise.

Sounds like I’ll need to chose between a radiator recore or a new Radtech aluminum rad. 
 

https://www.radtec.co.uk/shop/radiators/gt6-radiator/

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9 minutes ago, avivalasvegas said:

My apologies - we did run new coolant through earlier this year. It came out quite clear. No rust or sludge was visible.

The aux fan definitely kicks in at high speed, as the temperature gauge does move above the halfway mark, even in colder weather. This only happens in London bumper to bumper traffic otherwise.

Sounds like I’ll need to chose between a radiator recore or a new Radtech aluminum rad. 
 

https://www.radtec.co.uk/shop/radiators/gt6-radiator/

Wheraboutso n teh temp gauge does the radiator kick in? should be approx 3/4. But really, don't assume anything is actually wrong with teh rad until it is proved. 

The other problem can be the gauges and/or senders are often "out" and giving false high readings which can cause panic. (never hear of gauges under reading, probably as owners are just happy with them)

What type of temperature switch does the fan use? and is it top or bottom hose? These are important questions, along with the actual temp it is coming on at. 

 

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1 hour ago, avivalasvegas said:

he aux fan definitely kicks in at high speed, as the temperature gauge does move above the halfway mark

Most people, including me, are happy with a gauge at just over 1/2 way. The important point is that you know where it sits under normal use, when it goes well over that and stays there that is the time to worry a bit. Have you tested the temperature using an infrared temperature gun to see if in fact it is running too hot?

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22 minutes ago, Chris A said:

Have you tested the temperature using an infrared temperature gun to see if in fact it is running too hot?

A very valid point by Chris. When I first bought my car the gauge read high but an infrared gun said no. Changed gauge and the gun was right. 

I have used Water Wetter and although some people will say its smoke n mirrors it worked for me. Reduced the temperature by up to 5 degrees.

Some people put in a 50/50 water/antifreeze mixture which will also reduce the heat dissipation. The higher concentration of antifreeze the less efficient it is at heat dissipation, but by how much this effects our cars I don't know. I use 25/75 mixture. 

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41 minutes ago, avivalasvegas said:

must admit I cannot explain why the temperature rises with 70mph airflow.

There is a tipping point where the amount of heat generated by the engine cannot be dissipated by the cooling system. This point will vary due to various issues original design being one. Our engine castings where prone to semi blocked water and oil ways, you might just be unlucky. 

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20 minutes ago, Iain T said:

There is a tipping point where the amount of heat generated by the engine cannot be dissipated by the cooling system. This point will vary due to various issues original design being one. Our engine castings where prone to semi blocked water and oil ways, you might just be unlucky. 

Further complicated by the fact that this engine was extensively rebuilt 35K miles ago with some really unorthodox decision making. {Drives great though 🙂}
 

I have almost completed my Auto-Rx oil treatment. This additive is known to gently (slowly) unblock oil pathways, dissolve sludge and rejuvenating rubber seals. It has worked wonders of my cars over the past 15 years. If there was a block oil passage, I’m highly confident that will have been resolved. 
 

For the coolant, my Mercedes Benz cars systems were descaled and flushed using Citric Acid. Has anyone tried this on a Triumph?

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2 hours ago, avivalasvegas said:

I would be happy as well. However, the aux fan kicks in at the 5/8 mark and prevents an additional increase in temperature. I must admit I cannot explain why the temperature rises with 70mph airflow.

If the gauge is correctly calibrated, that is a bit low for the fan to come in at. Really 2/4 is more realistic. Sounds like "temperature paranoia" by the previous owner! ie if a 82 degree thermostat is fitted, you don't want teh fan OFF temp lower than about 85 minimum, which will usually be about 92 on. 95 on is probably better as you have the std fan fitted as well. I suspect the fan switch is just incorrectly set.

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we had a member on the past forum change an engine due to hot paranoia  when it was the wrong sender unit fitted   

why on earth you need engine fan and electric fan is just ...well daft 

one thing is certain  triumph did more temperature testing and recording  in all conditions for thousands of miles to achieve a good overall cooling performance that 

after market kits and much twiddling cannot get even close 

my Vit6 had side shields ,631 tubular unwrapped manifold , a reasonable radiator core , cool intake tubes   and the engine plastic 7 blade fan and would idle for and hour on MOT never missed a beat

the basics work fine   to fund a electric headache when the rad tubes are unkown is again reverse engineered  but its your money  your choice 

its on my list of must haves you dont need to have , and its often just  masking the real problem  

and with a coat on the hook ready to run the problem can be the owners  often misguided   desire   for a must have    

Pete

 

 

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