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Clutch parts for fitting a Triumph Overdrive gearbox onto a 1970 Triumph Herald 1200


jagnut66
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Hi, 

I have just collected an overdrive gearbox to fit onto my 1970 Triumph Herald 1200.
What I now need is a clutch that will fit.
At present the Herald has the standard non-overdrive box, clutch and flywheel fitted. 
I have been advised the overdrive gearbox is from a Triumph 1300.
The input shaft has 20 splines (I have counted them) and the seller advised me that I will need a 6 1/2" plate with fine splines. 
I would imagine he advised that size of plate so it would fit my existing flywheel.
Below are pictures of the gearbox (I will clean it up before fitting it😉).
I have posed the question, via email, to Rimmer Bros. but thought I would also 'ask the experts':
So, can you advise me what clutch parts I need to purchase, in terms of release bearing, clutch plate and clutch cover, in order to get this fitted to my Herald?
Many thanks,
Mike.

Triumph 1300 or 1360 overdrive gearbox 1.JPG

Triumph 1300 or 1360 overdrive gearbox 2.JPG

Triumph 1300 or 1360 overdrive gearbox 3.JPG

Triumph 1300 or 1360 overdrive gearbox 4.JPG

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you have 2 choices 1 get a 1500 flywheel and 4 sleeves to make the bolt holes smaller then use the 1500 clutch or 2 use the 1300/1147 flywheel and clutch cover with a certain clutch plate from \i believe 1 of the dolomites which is the correct diameter with the fine splines  eg ebay no 174947059033. The release bearing is the same

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plus you will need a custom propshaft probably best to buy new from David Mac or Canleys (who I think get from DM anyway) as it needs to be shorter and have a small flange at the rear and large at the front. You will also need the mounting plate/mount possibly there. and the gear lever, or use a standard 1500 gear lever and add the switch on the column as on early spitfire/vitesse and you will need to make a wiring loom. It all sounds a lot but really pretty simple oh and you may want to cut the prop tunnel a bit and make a cover so that you can access the prop to gearbox bolts (not sure if needed for this conversion)

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8 hours ago, DanMi said:

use the 1300/1147 flywheel and clutch cover with a certain clutch plate from \i believe 1 of the dolomites which is the correct diameter with the fine splines

I would expect that to be the Dolomite 1300 clutch (not the Toledo one as that's a 3-rail gearbox)

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Re the original clutch question: the Herald with the coil clutch used a 6 1/4 inch clutch plate; the later cars with diaphragm used a 6 1/2 plate. There's a difference in how the covers / types fit the flywheel. The coil clutch fits to the flywheel with two locating dowels, and the diaphragm clutch with three. I'd go for a complete diaphragm clutch kit to suit the gearbox (identify it by the serial number) - I'm hoping that it will also fit the Herald flywheel, if it's a diaphragm unit, as I suspect they were all the same for the smaller four cylinder cars - if not you'll need the correct flywheel plus make sure you have a diaphragm slave cylinder; the one with the notch in the side rather than the ring all the way round. As you've already stated, the release bearing needs to be the domed type rather than the flat.

After that, it's a case of measuring the rear end and having the propshaft shortened or adjusted to fit. I've done two recently and for both I just used a solid Herald prop, in my opinion less bother than sliding joints or straps.

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9 hours ago, DanMi said:

plus you will need a custom propshaft

Thanks, I've got one made up already.

9 hours ago, DanMi said:

and you may want to cut the prop tunnel a bit and make a cover so that you can access the prop to gearbox bolts (not sure if needed for this conversion)

All advice is greatfully received, as this isn't something I've done before. I will try and leave it as standard / reversible as possible though.

Talking of reverse, I meant to ask, I take it the two wires near the gear lever position (last picture) are for a reversing lamp? I have wired one up at present on a separate switch, as the 1200 doesn't have one.

1 hour ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Re the original clutch question: the Herald with the coil clutch used a 6 1/4 inch clutch plate; the later cars with diaphragm used a 6 1/2 plate. There's a difference in how the covers / types fit the flywheel. The coil clutch fits to the flywheel with two locating dowels, and the diaphragm clutch with three. I'd go for a complete diaphragm clutch kit to suit the gearbox (identify it by the serial number) - I'm hoping that it will also fit the Herald flywheel, if it's a diaphragm unit, as I suspect they were all the same for the smaller four cylinder cars - if not you'll need the correct flywheel plus make sure you have a diaphragm slave cylinder; the one with the notch in the side rather than the ring all the way round. As you've already stated, the release bearing needs to be the domed type rather than the flat.

Rimmer Bros have advised that I need a 6 1/2" Dolomite 1300 clutch plate to fit my 1200 Herald for this conversion, so from this I'm assuming my 1970 car has the diaphragm version. Your 1967 1200 Estate would be the same as mine wouldn't it Colin?

Ironically, in their next sentence, they state they have none in stock! 😄

Fortunately an eBay source was quoted in an earlier post in this topic, so I've sourced one from there.

I don't think I have any clutch issues with the existing set up, so was hoping to use the existing clutch cover, though it may pay me to source a new release bearing, just in case. 

Should I go for a 1200 or 1300 release bearing, though I think someone said they are the same?

Best wishes,

Mike.

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My 1967 estate was diaphragm, so I think yours should be the same. The serial number will tell you what gearbox it is and so the clutch plate can be bought for that model.

With clutches, unless I'm sure everything is 100% I'll replace what I can - saves taking it all apart later on for some small part that was left alone first time. Get the best clutch you can - cheaper ones may not be as well made, and again you want to fit and forget as much as possible.

Release bearing is GRB207, same for Spitfire and Dolomite 1300.

 

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3 hours ago, DanMi said:

Be careful I ordered a release bearing on it's last year and the one the supplied was about 5mm thinner so check before using

Noted, thanks.

7 hours ago, Colin Lindsay said:

Release bearing is GRB207, same for Spitfire and Dolomite 1300.

Thanks Colin, I will order one of those then.

Best wishes,

Mike.

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