Engine problems?

[jagnut66]

Hi, 

My (formerly) smooth running Herald seems to have developed a fault, which may be the head gasket but may also be compression, meaning engine out.....

She will start and get off the uphill slope of my driveway but very soon starts to stutter, gradually loosing more and more power as she gets warmer, for example: the last run I took her out on I barely got home and by the time she reached the final hill she struggled to and barely got up it in first gear, previously she's tackled it in fourth or at least third.

There is no water in the oil nor oil in the water, which points to the head gasket still being okay. Plus I had a similar problem on one of my Minors, which ended up needing a rebuild of the short motor.

But what do others think, could it be fuel starvation for example, though she starts and revs fine at a standstill, it's when shes in gear / under load / on the move that the problems arrise.

I thought I'd post this up on here and throw it open to the forum, before I go to the expense of rebuilding the engine.

Best wishes,

Mike.

 

[dougbgt6]

Exhaust all the simple alternatives before you dive in! Could be the dread rubber slivers, blocking the fuel line? A compression test would be good. As Mathew says, what's the temperature gauge say? 

Doug

[Pete Lewis]

has this been a gradual loss of power or something which occured quite quickly ???

the fact it went uphill last week and wont today does not mean theres a head gasket or piston wear problem 

have you disturbed the fuel hoses   rubber slivers blocking the carb flaot valve is very common 

i see you have a 1200 herald  yes ??

any back fires ???    does the dizzy condenser have an orange wire   have the points closed up. look burnt ??

distributor doctor sells good condensers .

check the small hose on top of the tank suction pipe is it hard/ loose sucking air 

any debris in the fuel pump filter ??

when were the plugs last changed  

stick to the simples not dive into deep pocket thoughts 

a engine that needs a rebuild developes over many miles not over night 

and any head work does not need the engine out 

so do the easy first

Pete

 

[jagnut66]

There may have been a small amount of hesitance before I parked her up to renew the fuel line and refurbish the manual pump, however it was very slight. 

I may have sucked something else through when I used my spare SU elctronic fuel pump to suck the petrol through the new fuel line, before fitting it to the existing carb.

Though I would have thought nothing would have got passed the filters in the manual pump? (I attached the SU pump to the very end of the new fuel line, which was subsequently attached to the carb.)

So it's fair to say you've given me food for thought and some (very) cautious optimism. We'll see.............

I have the parts to refurbish and fit the SU HS4, hopefully making it Ethanol resistant, so perhaps now is the time to try the conversion I was considering in an earlier post on here.

As you said, try the cheaper option before facing the expensive one.............

Keeping my fingers crossed.........

Best wishes,

Mike.

[NonMember]

Your symptoms sound very similar to my Toledo when the gauze filter in the mechanical fuel pump got clogged. It's not impossible that your use of the electric pump drew something through the pipes to similar effect.

[jagnut66]

I did take the lid off the pump and lifted off the top filter before writing this but couldn't see anything in there...... (except clean fuel)......

So the next thing is the carb.....

Best wishes,

Mike.

[dougbgt6]

24 minutes ago, jagnut66 said:

I parked her up to renew the fuel line and refurbish the manual pump

This how you get rubber slivers, pushing pipe into rubber hose. They get scraped off the rubber and either block the reservoir valve open and you get flooding or, impend the flow and you get fuel starvation.

Doug   

[daverclasper]

Maybe have a look at the plugs after running with the issue. Can tell a fair bit. Wished I had done that after problems, as I replaced most of ignition.

A look at the plugs would have showed cylinders 1,2,3 (6 cylinder) engine running massively rich, which would pretty much be a fuel issue.

As it was I had replaced air filter upside down and blocked air into carb 

[jagnut66]

Already changed the plugs, leads and cap, as they all came with the car, so are now renewed.

Best wishes,

Mike.

[Pete Lewis]

as you have changed the hoses i hope with something like gates barricade or as good 

there is a wonderful chance you have the dreaded rubber slivers i would caefully look at the back of the float needle valve this is where they 

end up after floating about in the supply pipes    crafty little devils  

do pull the pipe from the carb and crank to pump a spurt of fuel into a jam jar 

and also as you have refurbed the pump check you have the cam lever on the right side of the cam not under it 

when you crank you should get a well defined spurt of fuel ito the jar  not a weak dribble 

Pete

[jagnut66]

3 hours ago, Pete Lewis said:

when you crank you should get a well defined spurt of fuel ito the jar  not a weak dribble 

Thanks Pete, I'll check.

[jagnut66]

On 06/10/2021 at 20:42, Pete Lewis said:

when you crank you should get a well defined spurt of fuel ito the jar  not a weak dribble 

Pete

Finally got away from the Moggy to have a look at this, there is a good 'spurt' when I crank the engine over, which looked like it would fill the jar quite quickly if I had continued cranking it over.

What I also noticed was damp and bubbles leaking past the square plates gasket on the side of the solex, diaphragm?

I hadn't seen this before....... 😒

So, as I don't have a rebuild kit for the solex and I had a freshly rebuilt SU HS4 with adapter ready to fit, I took the solex off and fitted the SU.

Once it was all plumbed in it ran like a dream, trouble is the SU is too high, so I can't take it for a run to test it properly.

A short necked SU HS4 chamber might clear / cure it but it's finding one..............

The hunt is on......

Meanwhile any other suggestions on how to overcome this and get the bonnet closing properly again are welcome. 

I will attach a picture in the morning, it's too dark to take one now.

Best wishes,

Mike.

 

[Pete Lewis]

i take it its the adaptor thats raised the  SU carb to foul the bonnet ???  can you judge the clearance you need to gain   would a short top be enough ???

Pete

[jagnut66]

1 minute ago, Pete Lewis said:

i take it its the adaptor thats raised the  SU carb to foul the bonnet ???  can you judge the clearance you need to gain   would a short top be enough ???

Very possibly, I'll take another look (and a picture) in the morning. Though I hope a short neck will be enough, as I'd rather keep the SU.

Best wishes,

Mike.

[jagnut66]

Pictures of my set up below.

Two things to note, firstly that the adapter was originally intended for a (larger than the solex) stromberg............ with a shorter neck...... 

And secondly the staining on the underside of the bonnet around the point where the plastic top of the SU damper impacts on the bonnet must relate to my solex carb, as I haven't run the SU with the bonnet closed yet.

Having confirmed it is the top of the SU impacting the bonnet, if anyone has or knows where I can get one from, I am seriously interested in acquiring a short necked chamber.

Best wishes,

Mike.

[jagnut66]

Sometimes it's the little things that hold you up.

To get over my height issue I removed the studs and skimmed a few mil off the inlet section of the manifold.

However, to achieve this without metal shavings getting into the engine I naturally removed the manifold, eventually.......

All the metal nuts resisted me, some more than others.....

So first on my shopping list was brass nuts. Also required and not included in any of my head gasket kits, is the manifold to downpipe gasket.

And so it began..... I had a look on ebay and found a seller with one that appeared the right shape and was listed for a Herald/Spitfire etc. etc........

This went inder the code GEG701, which turned out to be too large and is for a 13/60, shame he didn't put that little detail in his advert title.....

So I went back to him, "no problem, it's actually GEG702 that you need for a late Herald 1200 sir, send the others back and we'll issue a refund"...........

So I bought GEG702's, as my car dates to 1970, problem solved?..........

Actually no......

These were a size too big also. It appears my 1970 car is fitted with an earlier manifold, which requires gasket ref: GEG717..... which he doesn't stock.......

Fortunately Rimmers does, so I bought some from them in the end and they fitted first time. 

These arrived this morning and I was finally able to bolt everything back together again. 

So problems over?

Well not quite.......

Although my SU carb now sits under the bonnet, without trying to push through it (just), because of its height and angle I am having trouble to get a 'normal' type of air filter housing to fit.

I was going to use a Morris Minor 1000 one, I have one restored and ready to fit, however upon fitting this it sat too high and I was back to being unable to close the bonnet....

So I tried a Morris Marina style one, same issue.

In the end I robbed my project Series 2 Minor of it's rather fetching SU pancake filter. This is fine I'll fit the Minor 1000 one to it instead and 'keep it in the family'.......

Time for a test drive.

I am pleased to report it no longer hisitates and stutters, obviously the Solex needs a complete overhall with E10 proof diaphragms etc.

Performance is about the same, though a bit more 'rorty'. Took her up to 70 on a bit of duel carraigeway near me.

Not as noisy as I thought the pancake might make her though, I notice it mainly because before, with her standard air filter fitted, she was almost silent by comparison.

One thing I have heard that worries me though, I noticed someone commenting on the MMOC site that pancake air filters can bring on an engine rebuild.....

Are they really that bad for the engine long term or was the guy talking out of his a***.............. ?

The last picture shows some of my 'alternative' air filter fittings, that sit too high, does anyone have a suggestion for a more standard type air filter arrangement that may sit lower and fit?

Best wishes,

Mike.

[jagnut66]

As an update to this topic, I have now replaced both the needle, which I felt was 'overfuelling' the engine (changed from a standard 1275 needle to a rich 1098 needle, code DL), plus the air filter, which (as stated in another post) I found to be too noisy and 'raspy' for my liking, to something more 'standard' and quieter, namely the ex-Marina air filter pictured above.

I got round the fitting of this using an inverted and adapted SU filter elbow (not pictured in the above post). 

Some on here will be fans of the how the embossed pancake looks no doubt but looks aren't everything, so in all likelihood I will be advertising the pancake for sale on here at some point, should anyone be interested.

Best wishes,

Mike.

 

[Pete Lewis]

wise   move     pancakes are best with a dash of lemon on a tuesday  !!! 

but   on a carburettor ........... noisy ..........weak mixtured  ..........and full of hot air   

the noise makes the brain think its quicker but a stop watch will show its actually slower  than a std setup 

unless you do a lot of work to compensate 

Pete