Sandy Gibson Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 Rebuilding Spitfire Mk111 and going to fit Payen head gasket. Wondering if it needs coating or apply it dry. I use Hylomar blue everywhere else. It’s a new engine to me but I was advised by PO that it had no cylinder head issues and the old gasket bore that out. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanMi Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 I would use dry with maybe a thin smear around the oil channel to the rockers NS rear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Gibson Posted October 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 Thanks. That sounds about right to me. I’ve never used a Payen gasket before but I have read that they are supposed to be fitted dry. Lots of posts around advocating copper spray and Permatex but I’m reluctant to use anything on a head gasket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Moss Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 I prefer to use the copper spray stuff and some joint compound. Payen aren’t what they once were in my view. Don’t fit the horrid silver crossed cheap head gaskets either - last about 6 months. Up to you what you do, and keen to hear how you get on. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Gibson Posted October 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 Thanks Andy. Will let you know in due course! Having a problem getting pistons at the moment. Lots of bits and pieces out of stock everywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 8, 2021 Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 head gaskets need to grip using a slippy sealer will allow it to let go the head does pant ( vibrate/shuffle ) so the gasket is generally fitted dry use high quality washers and nuts look at the old ones normally shows the nut has deformed the washer a situation you need to avoid a light smear around the rocker oil feed hole and maybe a smear along the cam follower chest side Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Gibson Posted October 8, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 8, 2021 Thanks for that. I was going to use new nuts as I know the head has been off and on a few times but I would probably just used the old washers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky_Spit Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 Hi Sandy - use these head nuts from Minispares. They are flanged and do not need washers, and are top quality items and exactly the right size and thread for your engine. Cheap too. Lots of people are using them on 1300 and 1500 Triumph engines and recommend them. CAM4545 - Mini head nut flanged type for cylinder head (minispares.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Gibson Posted October 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 Funnily enough, I saw these on line the other day and thought they looked like a good idea but never went any further as I didn’t know if they would be OK! Ill have another look now! Many thanks for tip. Sandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Sparky_Spit said: Lots of people are using them on 1300 and 1500 Triumph engines and recommend them. And on Mk1 2L engines, too. Good quality and do the job well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 left out the 1600 good for any engine with 3/8 unf studs wheel nuts can work well also ( taper upmost) Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Gibson Posted October 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 I’m sure your correct on this one and I’m going to get them but my simple mind tells me that the lack of a washer will damage the head surface? If the torque forces can deform a hardened washer, with these nuts does the bottom of the flange deform before the head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 I cheated and used both. I liked the way the nut flared out at the bottom and so spread the load, but in order to prevent damage to anything caused by the torquing up I used washers as well. And before you point it out - no it's not tightened down yet in the photo! (Has been, since) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Gibson Posted October 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 That looks good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky_Spit Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 I've been using these flanged Minispares nuts for quite a few years now, on Triumph engines and on two different A series engines, and have had no issues with the lower flanged face of the nut deforming the surface of the head. I personally wouldn't use a separate washer underneath them; it defeats the object of using them in the first place, as you would need to be 100% certain that you have bought properly hardened washers and not ones made from cheese. The Minispares nuts have been around for a long time and have a good reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonMember Posted October 9, 2021 Report Share Posted October 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Sandy Gibson said: my simple mind tells me that the lack of a washer will damage the head surface? No. The head surface is quite hard and the bottom of those nuts is quite smooth. You don't want anything squidgy in there or your head clamping forces won't stay as they should be, hence the need to use either a properly made, hardened, flange nut (from MiniSpares) or a proper hardened washer (which are a lot more difficult to identify). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted October 10, 2021 Report Share Posted October 10, 2021 The washers are the proper uprated hardened cylinder head stud washer from specialists; not much point in using anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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