Josef Posted January 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 8 hours ago, Paul H said: Hi Pete , pretty sure it’s the same issue you identified on my Vitesse gearbox ref 156911 . Paul I’ve just found your thread Paul. I think you were describing the whole hub unit moving relative to the mainshaft? My inner fits nicely on the mainshaft, but the outer can move in more directions than just up and down the direction of the mainshaft. If that make sense? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 so the sliding sleeve is a rattling good fit on the hub ???? rather than the hub is a rattling good fit on the shaft ??? hub and sleeve are almost a matched pair /nice fit Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 Right, that’s what I expected would be the case. I wasn’t thinking something wobbling about in a gearbox could possibly be normal! I’m guessing the sliding sleeve is correct, and the hub is from an earlier box based on the fit of the synchro ring teeth. Going to be time to find another donor gearbox I think. You can get a replacement part for this shift mechanism, but at £125 I’ll gamble on getting something useful out of a second donor first, if I can find one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 12, 2022 Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 yes paul has a problem with the fit of the hub . when i saw this i was under the impression of 3 rail single rail mixed up parts but the 1/2nd hub part number is common to both apart from reverse tooth count . have to say ive come across a good few gearboxes with very unmatched parts used by a previous meddler Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 12, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2022 My guess is early and late 3 rail parts. But I suppose I shall find out when I manage to find some spares or a donor and can make some comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 aha 3 rails as a 13/60 does it have crash on 1st ie 3 sync not 4 sync ???? the 1/2 hub does shift on the back forth on mainshaft there is a ball that locks it up as y ou make it slide during a change 3rd 4th hubs are same but 1/2nd all very different as is the mainshafts incl OD pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 The number on this box is for a 72 US Spitfire. It has 4 synchro rings in it so I assume most of the correct gearset. The 1/2 hub inner part does not have anything to lock against the mainshaft (I’m pretty sure it doesn’t at least, will have to double check later). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 yes 4 sync the 1/2nd hub is free on the splined shaft agree there is no wobble on any hubs sleeves / i may have a 3rd 4th hub will look later today Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 Thanks Pete, but it's the 1st/2nd hub thats problematic. I've been playing around, the inner from the 3rd/4th hub is a good fit on the outer of the 1st/2nd. Which makes me more sure it's only the inner of the 1st/2nd hub that's wrong. I also can't get the ball bearings out of the 1st/2nd inner but that's probably unimportant for me right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 13, 2022 Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 thats the same as we found in Pauls box there is a explaination , but i dont have it (thought i did but wrong ) i have found this on others it makes no gearbox sense the hub is used on a good few variations/models i was sure it was single rail hubs in a 3 rail but thats not it .unless the part numbers have been pickled on canleys 156911 is superseded to 515377 but thats no lead either Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 13, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2022 Well I have a potential lead on a spare box local to me, so I’ll see how that pans out. Really just curious at the moment as to what’s going on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 14, 2022 Report Share Posted January 14, 2022 if the spare box has a hub that "fits" we will know where the problem lies how thats come about and why these sloppy fit hubs are about might be in the hands of sherlock and friends Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2022 I’ve just been playing around with the bits of gearbox again and have come to a conclusion. I think the centre of the 1/2 shift hub is just really heavily worn. Comparing with the 3/4 centre the diameters are the same, but the teeth on the 1/2 are a lot thinner, and some have almost step like forms on the inner faces. In the photos, right is 1/2 and left is 3/4. Feels logical that the 1/2 will suffer the most punishment. Given the state of the input shaft tip too I’d guess at some of these parts at least came from a pretty high mileage box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2022 43 minutes ago, Mathew said: That does look worn! I would of thought the outer part worn as well! Did it have sand in the box to keep it quiet! The outer does not look or feel all that worn (this is the first gearbox I’ve opened though so this opinion may be revised in the future!). Based on the state of the synchro rings though I’d say this box has been “rebuilt” (opened, had a few new parts fitted, put back together) and then done very little, or even no, mileage. So the outer and inner parts of the hub could well be a mismatched set as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lewis Posted January 17, 2022 Report Share Posted January 17, 2022 thats a lot worn but the other seems a very larger profile does the sleeve even fit on it ??4 Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2022 Yeah the 3/4 outer will go on the 1/2 centre, and it’s a similarly loose fit. Difficult to see in the photos but I’ve just noticed there are visible lips of worn metal on the ends of the teeth. I feel like the smaller tooth profile is just cause of how knackered it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 20, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2022 Just received a small but very rare thrust washer for the mainshaft from Mick Dolphin. The one in the box was actually cracked! So should be able to do a bit of measuring and see what other bits I might need. My possible spare gearbox lead is not panning out very fast, so I’m more and more tempted to just buy the offending 1/2 hub. Expensive, but it also means I wouldn’t be scrapping another gearbox just for one part… I’m pretty sure the rest of the important bits here are actually fairly decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2022 Spare gearbox obtained. Not quite as local as I was hoping, but hey I’ve got something to play with. The magnetic drain plug has been doing it’s job, hopefully not a sign of it being too worn inside… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2022 So except for some rust on third gear the internals look alright. There’s no play in the 1/2 shift hub like in box number one so I’m pretty confident in my diagnosis of extreme wear on that one. Will be starting on taking the whole lot to bits tomorrow afternoon and will have a proper inspection then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 26, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2022 Well gearbox number two is in pieces. I’d say this is another one that was “rebuilt” not too many miles ago. The mainshaft tip is worn out, but it’s got pretty new looking synchro rings, new looking lay shaft, bearings feel smooth and so on. So I guess a rebuild kit was fitted without necessarily a good check for wear and tolerances on the rest of it. Anyway, the shift hubs feel more like I was expecting and definitely don’t wobble about all over the place! I’ll take some comparison photos when I’ve cleaned up the parts of gearbox two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2022 The photos here mostly just show quite how knackered the shift hub in gearbox number one is. I think the edge of the tooth profiles of the outer gear on the shift hubs are slightly different, and the outer from gearbox one will not fit on the inner of gearbox two. Though given the state of the inner from gearbox one it’s reasonable to suppose that has resulted in some damage to the corresponding outer so that might be why. Anyway, I definitely now have enough parts to build a whole gearbox. So have ordered the replacement bits I’m going to need, and will get on with rebuilding it when they turn up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted January 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 Staring on the road to gearbox reassembly - getting a bit of paint on the case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Lindsay Posted January 31, 2022 Report Share Posted January 31, 2022 Same paint as I've just bought for my manifold!! Good stuff, nice finish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted February 19, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2022 Progress is going in tiny steps as I’m mostly waiting for back order parts to put the gearbox together again. The overdrive is sitting waiting for strip down and inspection, but I really don’t want to start that till I have a whole gearbox. However, I have just put the welch plugs back in the top cover, so that’s now complete, ready and waiting. I had to replace one of the detent springs, otherwise everything was serviceable after a good clean. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josef Posted March 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 Well, had a surprise e-mail at lunchtime. The Spitfire is back from paint and should be back with me in a week or so. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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