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Speedo cable oil leak


RAW1969
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Hopefully a quick question from a novice - to see if anyone's got experience of this....

 

1967 Vitesse Mk1 2L (o/d).

 

Whilst up on the ramps for MOT last weekend an oil leak was pointed out. Coming out of the bottom of the gearbox - where the speedo cable goes in. To my inexperienced eye - this looks a straightforward enough job. Move exhaust out of the way. Undo the nuts, get covered in gear oil, fit new seal/ washer - reassemble - refill with new (correct grade) oil (from the top).

 

Is this niave? Which pitfalls have I overlooked?

 

Any tips greatly appreciated  and also a second opinion of the likely part required. I'm thinking Rimmers: "Seal Speedo Bearing:  506067S"

But there's also an "Oil seal - speedo drive pinion" - which is quite tempting. But Rimmers have it listed as non-overdrive in one description and both overdrive and non-overdrive in another.

 

- or would best practice be to take it apart and then see what bits are required?

 

Many thanks for taking the time to read this.....

Richard

 

 
 

 

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many sites dont show the breakdown , even OD spares only show the drive as assy.

 

you need seal 506067s  and o ring 506115

 

I would take tunnel off and work from above  , if you jack up rear of car you loose olny a little oil

 

make sure you align the  hole  in the hsg. to the   locking bolt spigot 

 

if the old  hsg. is resisting pulling out , its just stuck on the o ring , 

 

with tunnel off its easier to  refill the box.

 

 

Pete

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Recently changed the speedo seal and o ring on the J type overdrive in my 2L Vitesse. My query on this site was on the need for the copper washer shown between the angle drive and the gearbox speedo gear holder. I found there was room to remove the angle drive, after removing the retaining stirrup, while it was still attached to the gear holder then separate them at the work bench. Much easier than pulling on the oily end of the speedo gear, also be prepared for a loss of gearbox oil.

 

Regards

 

Paul

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  • 5 months later...

Returning to this thread as I've finally got around to attempting to do this job. Don't ask!

 

Anyway - having dismantled from the top (seats, carpets, tunnel etc) - I've fallen at the first hurdle on the job itself. Workshop manual says "detach speedo cable". Pictures for the job  don't look like what I'm looking at. Assuming the manual is showing a non-overdrive vehicle. And looking at some other pictures - think mine's got a D-type overdrive. So speedo cable not coming off the box at an acute angle - but out at a right angle - then turning through 90 degrees. I'm assuming this "corner" is the angle drive (mentioned on other threads for similar jobs). So - if my assumptions are correct - could anyone help shed some light on how I get the cable off the angle drive? I've taken the little set screw out - and the whole thing waggles - but doesn't come off. Not sure which direction I should be pulling (along the cable towards the front of the car - or away from the box towards the drivers side) Also - there's precious little space to pull sideways due to the floor. Second question is - assuming successful removal of the cable! - the bolt that holds the speedo gear in location - how the heck do you get a spanner on that. From underneath the exhaust is in the way - from the top I can't see it - let alone undo it. 

 

Any tips greatly appreciated....even the "simplest" jobs present a significant challenge to a novice!

 

Thanks

Richard

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The cable should pull out towards the engine, the angle drive heads for the drivers door

you can leave the cable attached to the angle hsg.

 

yes just undo the spigot bolt ,, theres lots of other fitting you cant see or if you can see you wont get a spanner on anyway its the joys of classics

maybe undo the rear mounting from its support plate and lift the rear of the box upwards a little ....

 

the main drive hsg. Should pull straight out of the rear hsg. any sticking is the O ring , just eat extra

shreaded wheat and use a lever to jack it out, mind you dont snag the threads they are easy damaged

 

pete

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Armed with the confidence gained from others' experience I've had another go at it tonight. Now detached the speedo cable and removed the retaining bolt.  This counts as progress for me. Levering the angle drive away from the box towards drivers' side there's some movement. Think it's the bearing coming out of the gearbox housing. Angle drive doesn't seem to be separating. Problem I have now is the 1cm or so of travel brings the angle drive to meet the edge of the floor panel - so it's a bit stuck. I think describing this job as fiddly is an understatement!

Anyway - next question(s) - when you say above to undo the rear mounting from its support plate and lift the rear of the box a little - can I just check (before doing something daft) - do you mean to disconnect the drive shaft by undoing the bolts on the joint just behind the gearbox? Also - in lifting the rear of the box a little -  should I attempt this with a jack from underneath (back of the car already up on axle stands to try & minimise gearbox oil loss) - or would hoisting from above be a better idea? Finally - how much movement in raising the box is OK without risking busting something further forward?

I'm beginning to understand why people live with the smell caused by a small oil leak in these cars! Still hopeful I can see this through as I really don't like the smell. Maybe fitting an air freshener would be more within my current capabilities..... 

Your help & comments greatly appreciated.

Richard

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first question has the prop tunnel been cut back  4-6 "  to expose the rear coupling , tends to have a cover plate fitted to cover the coupling , this has to be cut out to fit an overdrive box,  if its not been done access and even lifting is going to be more difficult,    this is a hacksaw modification , 

 

there are two bolts which fix the rubber mount under the OD to a plate attached to the chassis rails,  undo these two , or undo the mount from the OD housing and you can jack the box up a bit

no need to uncouple the propshaft, and no oil loss apart  there will be some from the speedo drive  when removed.

 

the drive is a straight metal housing any reluctance to pull out is only the O ring sticking the caps on the angle drive and speedo cable only need to be hand tight ,thats why they are just a knurled cap,  over the years they get mullered with pipe grips and mole wrenches the threads are quite fine and damage is often found here

 

but if the caps are off the cable and the drive should just pull off easy

 

Pete

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Hi Pete

 

Yes the prop tunnel has been cut back & I've taken the cover plate off. The speedo cable cap unscrewed with fingers after some gentle mole grip work to get it going. Used fingers as the grips didn't really fit in the gap. I hadn't realised the angle drive would similarly unscrew - though I had seen the brass fitting is knurled. Should the knurled cap rotate without having to turn the whole angle drive (there's no room for the whole angle drive to rotate more than about 90 degrees whilst in situ). If I can undo this second knurled cap and get the angle drive off I may not need to lift the box at all. 

I suspect the finger tight components may have been over tightened by a PO in an attempt to stop the oil loss. On the plus side the oil that did come out last night when I partially removed the speedo drive was nice and clean.

Thanks again for you advice. I expect I'll be back for more shortly!

Richard

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yes both cap nuts should run freely on the cable end and the angle drive

 

so its has to be free'd off to get the angle 'off'

 

the Po may have used some form of sealer ..!!!!     

 

yes gear oil remains clean as there are no carbon contaminents , hence many dont have a drain plug, as you dont need to change it like you do engine oil

 

diff is the same 

 

the only time you need to drain is if theres been a failure or its been cooked 

 

try two tea bags  and a dash of amber dosnt help remove anything but you feel better  Ha !

 

Pete

 

Pete

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Once the bearing is out it is quite tricky to take apart as they are screwed on then pinned which means the pin has to be drilled out before unscrewing. You can buy the whole assembly which is much easier

 

http://www.overdrive-repairs.co.uk/buy-spares.php?cat=D  but out of stock or try odspares.com

 

or you can get just the seal 506066s and oring 506115 from Jamespaddock etc cheaper but much more work (I have assumed d type od)

 

I was advised to use threadlock when reassembling mine and has been ok for a couple of years now. ( I did it the cheap way but wished I'd just spent the extra)

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DanMi

 

Thanks - I hadn't appreciated there would be some drilling to look fwd to. I've already got the 2 seals courtesy of Rimmers  - but presumably I'll need a replacement pin too if I'm going to have to drill the old one out (if I ever do get the blessed thing out of the car). Might be a go for the whole unit instead once the old one's out.

 

Richard

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Ive never come across the pin , and if you have the spigot bolt dont think you will find one  the pin seems to be introduced later on.  ( as a cost saving )

 

if the leak is from the pinion seal you can unscrew the threaded adaptor and oik the seal out  with a screwdriver without removing the assy.

 

if the leak is from around the assy then it needs the 0 ring replacing and all has to come out 

 

Pete

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If the 2 halves of the bearing are drilled and pinned (mine comes from a mk4 spit) then it can be drilled out but then just use thread lock on reassembly. I had to talk to ODspares to get mine apart as I hadn't spotted the tiny pin so spent hours trying to unscrew it, they told me to just use threadlock on reassembly. Hopefully Pete is correct in your case

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Today's update...

 

Found time to have another look & again with renewed confidence - I managed to get the angle drive off. The knurled brass fitting was only finger tight - I just hadn't realised it was actually unscrewing previously. So with that off and the spigot bolt out the whole bearing and pinion came out without much more fuss.

Having cleaned the bearing housing up a little at the work bench I set out to separate the bearing to get at the seal. Couldn't see how I could fiddle it out - or fiddle the new one into position - not knowing which way round it needed to sit. Decided to try and separate them. Don't consider myself particularly strong & I hadn't had any shredded wheat for breakfast - so was surprised when the side of the bearing housing cracked. On closer inspection - there was a pin & my brutishness twisted it to rip the (thin) side out of the bearing housing. So a cautionary tail....Not sure if the bearing was original to the car or a later replacement...... but this 1967 Vitesse had a pin in the bearing.... but still it's now separated and the seal is out - which is progress  :)

The guys at Overdrive Repair Services have said they'd got the whole replacement bearing unit - even though the website says they're out of stock - so hopefully I can secure that on Monday.....

Ups and downs is how it goes. I was so chuffed to eventually get it out of the car. So it's a small setback. Thought I'd share in case it saves anyone else the trouble.

 

Richard

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Don't get me wrong - I'm still smiling. Everyday I see the little car it brings a smile to my face.

 

Discovered another school-boy error yesterday. In finally removing the bearing I'd moved the drip tray under the car slightly - so there's now a quite sizeable puddle of EP90 on the garage floor (which I now find is not level - as the puddle's spread across to the wall). Clearly the back end isn't jacked as high as it should be. 

 

You have to laugh. I started doing this small task as I didn't like the smell of oil in the car......now I have a garage full of the smell.

 

Richard

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